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Yes, redeem adamic sin from fallen father Adam for without Christ there could be No resurrection from death from adamic sin.
Yes, the spirit world (invisible angels) existed first before the material / physical realm or world.
Satan's sin committed in the spirit world is unforgivable - Matthew 12:32 - so was mortal Adam's sin.
Because of Jesus' ransom sacrifice for humanity sins can be forgiven.
When mortal Adam died Adam returned to the dust of the ground - Genesis 3:19
ALL of Adam included his flesh, one and skin because Adam was a living soul - Genesis 2:7
At death Adam become a dead soul, a life-less soul or person.
Please note the the Adam in Genesis chapter 3 is not the same Adam in Genesis chapter 4.
The Adam in Gen chapter 3 's location is in spiritual world where Adam is in the form of spirit, no flesh, no bone and no skin and the Adam in Gen chapter 4 is the form of a complete person having flesh, bone and skin.
I am not sure how would you accept it. The time lapse between Gen chapter 3 and chapter 4 is a very long period of time, billions of years.The Adam in Gen Chapter 3 happened when the universe was not formed yet. The Adam in Gen chapter 4 was the time when the Adam had acquired a physical body like us. The universe was formed around 7 billion year earlier than the earth. Adam existed on earth, a barren piece of rack orbiting around the sun and at beginning without any living thing.Earth's age is around 4.5 billion years according to science.
I think.. in short Adam's physical body came from nature in other words from evolution. God the Father created only the soul of the Adam and the physical body came later.
It's what we are, and I am interested in what we are, and how it is that Jesus came as a new Adam. The point is how to get the new Adam, and few people do that.
Hi xinc. I believe it was origin that held to something like what you are saying. I have also looked into that understanding but i found it did not fit with Paul's statements about the first man adam being of the earth earthy and first the natural man then the spiritual man.
So let me share how i see it.
Where your error comes in is not seeing Christ and humanity in christ in those scriptures.
Christ and humanity in Christ is and always was God great aim for humanity. When God first spoke of humanity he spoke of humanity as a finished product.
In 2 little scriptures God summed up the salvation of humanity in Christ.
I am well aware most will reject this understanding but as you are so close to seeing it for yourself i thought i would share this with you.
Thanks pneuma, you are correct in Christ and humanity in Christ.
We were once part of the Kingdom of God where in the people were interconnected to each other, there was no self centering, we were all acting as one unit with the Father, we did not know egoism all we know is altruism like our Father, we were one with the Father like Christ is one with the Father.
God's plan is to have all its people back like it was in the beginning.
You are aware of the LORD'S PRAYER prescribed by Jesus:
"Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Christ is tasked of gathering God's people back like what it was in heaven before we were separated from HIM where there was humanity.
This is accomplished through the gospel of Christ. But the gospel is not so understood by many. We should act now to spread the gospel of Christ. the aim of the gospel is to unite all of us that were separated from the Father
Thanks pneuma, you are correct in Christ and humanity in Christ.
We were once part of the Kingdom of God where in the people were interconnected to each other, there was no self centering, we were all acting as one unit with the Father, we did not know egoism all we know is altruism like our Father, we were one with the Father like Christ is one with the Father.
God's plan is to have all its people back like it was in the beginning.
You are aware of the LORD'S PRAYER prescribed by Jesus:
"Pray then like this: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.
Christ is tasked of gathering God's people back like what it was in heaven before we were separated from HIM where there was humanity.
This is accomplished through the gospel of Christ. But the gospel is not so understood by many. We should act now to spread the gospel of Christ. the aim of the gospel is to unite all of us that were separated from the Father
Hi xinc, like I said I looked into that understanding but cannot see how it can be reconciled with Paul's statement concerning the first man Adam, being a natural man of the earth earthy.
One reason some hold to the view you are espousing is that they think Adam was created inside the garden IE a spiritual place. However these two sets of scripture actually show man was created outside of the garden and placed within it.
Gen.2:7-8
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen.3:23
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
It's what we are, and I am interested in what we are, and how it is that Jesus came as a new Adam. The point is how to get the new Adam, and few people do that.
Adam was created without sin.
Since we are all born ' after ' Adam sinned then none of us are without sin as Adam originally was.
Jesus came as a new Adam in that Jesus did Not have a sinner as his Father, thus born without sin.
Thus, a faithful sinless Jesus could equal or balance the Scales of Justice for us.
...............................I think.. in short Adam's physical body came from nature in other words from evolution. God the Father created only the soul of the Adam and the physical body came later.
Rather, I find that God 'fashioned / formed' (Not evolved) Adam and Eve according to the Bible - Genesis 2:7; 2:21.
After God breathed the ' breath of life ' (Not the soul of life) into lifeless Adam then Adam came to be a living soul.
At death then sinner Adam became a dead soul, or a life-less soul.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and 'returned' back to non-life - Genesis 3:19
A person can't ' return ' to a place he never was before. Adam went back returning to the ground from which he was fashioned or formed by the Great Potter with Adam being the clay.
You aren't even replying to my reply to what he actually said about Adam not being physical in the garden, but a spirit.
Assuming that there was even a historical Adam.
There was no really historical Adam. The Adam in the Garden who sinned to God whose sin is unforgivable and that he deserved to be driven out of the Garden is us, the man of this world, the soul in us. The soul that we carry in our body is the old Adam. When somebody asked "How is your Adam." He means how is your soul, then you world answer "sticking well". (joke)
The old Adam in our body should be replaced with the NEW ADAM.
If you do not agree then I think you believe that when the body goes to grave, so with the soul (that is INC teaching) Have pity to your soul, he is asking for mercy. If the eternal life is not restored back to the soul, it will end up in hell.
You would not agree to this message if your belief is WHEN THE BODY DIES THE SOUL ALSO DIES.
The soul never dies, it lives forever.
Have pity to our soul, your soul, he is asking for mercy, if the eternal life is not restored back to him he is going to end up in hell.
Last edited by X-INC Man; 03-04-2021 at 08:36 AM..
I do not believe it is merely referencing religious people, rather the whole of humanity, collectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 4:4
Adam was created without sin.
Since we are all born ' after ' Adam sinned then none of us are without sin as Adam originally was.
Jesus came as a new Adam in that Jesus did Not have a sinner as his Father, thus born without sin.
Thus, a faithful sinless Jesus could equal or balance the Scales of Justice for us.
[quote=pneuma;60526355]Hi xinc, like I said I looked into that understanding but cannot see how it can be reconciled with Paul's statement concerning the first man Adam, being a natural man of the earth earthy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius
It's what we are, and I am interested in what we are, and how it is that Jesus came as a new Adam. The point is how to get the new Adam, and few people do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hljc
There are also in the spiritual world the realm of the High places which fallen angels abide, and these can hold curses of sin on man and animals, and there is the realm of the flesh where demon spirit and powers of darkness abide, where these can move into man and influence his life and can be a hazard of health ....... in the physical world there are massive distances right through the universe beyond scope, where the spiritual world there is little distance as these spirit in the spiritual world can affect every one on the earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Since the soul is the immaterial part of man it does not have flesh, bone, or skin.
Our main concern here should be the salvation of our soul and not only ours but the whole humanity.
We were once member of the Kingdom of God (the whole humanity) but we got separated from HIM because of our own doing, by conniving with Lucifer / Satan / the OLD SNAKE to rebel against our MAKER, disobeyed. transgressed or whatever you call it. Our God as a result of our rebellion hated us so much and drove us out of His Kingdom, remember the story in the Garden. But God is so merciful, so compassionate that He wanted us back to his Kingdom. Us, meaning the soul in our body sinned. At that time in the Garden there was no "body" yet but only the immaterial thing in us, our spiritual body. God created only our spiritual body not including our physical body.
That was in the beginning of time. Then later, after we were outcast only then that we acquired the physical body here on earth through evolution.
Now, the Adam in the Garden, in other words in the Kingdom of God in Heaven is not the same Adam as described in the following chapters of the book of Genesis. The Adam in the Garden is us who sinned, the soul in us, the soul of the whole mankind.
This Adam is us which is our soul should be renewed and become the New Adam, the Last Adam. That is why it is written, "The first Adam became a living soul, the last Adam (Christ) became a life giving spirit".
If that happened, if the sin of the Adam in us is taken off, the old Adam is replaced by the Last Adam which is Christ, then Christ is in us. How would that happen, by believing in Christ and the Gospel of Christ, that Christ was sent by our Father to take away the sin of the world, the sin of the Adam in us, for God hated the old Adam which is the Adam in us, our soul.
Last edited by X-INC Man; 03-08-2021 at 02:14 PM..
Our main concern here should be the salvation of our soul and not only ours but the whole humanity.
We were once member of the Kingdom of God (the whole humanity) but we got separated from HIM because of our own doing, by conniving with Lucifer / Satan / the OLD SNAKE to rebel against our MAKER, disobeyed. transgressed or whatever you call it. Our God as a result of our rebellion hated us so much and drove us out of His Kingdom, remember the story in the Garden. But God is so merciful, so compassionate that He wanted us back to his Kingdom. Us, meaning the soul in our body sinned. At that time in the Garden there was no "body" yet but only the immaterial thing in us, our spiritual body. God created only our spiritual body not including our physical body.
That was in the beginning of time. Then later, after we were outcast only then that we acquired the physical body here on earth through evolution.
Now, the Adam in the Garden, in other words in the Kingdom of God in Heaven is not the same Adam as described in the following chapters of the book of Genesis. The Adam in the Garden is us who sinned, the soul in us, the soul of the whole mankind.
This Adam is us which is our soul should be renewed and become the New Adam, the Last Adam. That is why it is written, "The first Adam became a living soul, the last Adam (Christ) became a life giving spirit".
If that happened, if the sin of the Adam in us is taken off, the old Adam is replaced by the Last Adam which is Christ, then Christ is in us. How would that happen, by believing in Christ and the Gospel of Christ, that Christ was sent by our Father to take away the sin of the world, the sin of the Adam in us, for God hated the old Adam which is the Adam in us, our soul.
Lucifer, Satan, the OLD SNAKE? Good grief! Those who live according to the human nature have their mind set on what their nature desires, but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their mind set on what the Spirit wants: Along came the tempter; the lust of the eyes (understanding of the mind), lust of the flesh (a heart of emotion) and the pride of life (the desires of the will). Thus, while the first Adam conceded to all that is in the world (that which extends deep down from the surface - yet, is visible through distinctive traits or characteristics common to all humanity); the second Adam stood his ground against the natural disposition of the soul and the temperament within that of other men.
Last edited by Jerwade; 03-08-2021 at 02:27 PM..
Reason: ...fixed quote
Hi xinc, like I said I looked into that understanding but cannot see how it can be reconciled with Paul's statement concerning the first man Adam, being a natural man of the earth earthy.
One reason some hold to the view you are espousing is that they think Adam was created inside the garden IE a spiritual place. However these two sets of scripture actually show man was created outside of the garden and placed within it.
Gen.2:7-8
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.
Gen.3:23
Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
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