Trinity is true, Jesus is God [MERGED] All posts about the Trinity doctrine (Hebrew, Greek)
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Trinity teaches that, He provided the Perfect and Holy Sacrifice for the sin of man, and that we can agree upon.
Islam also teaches something similar regarding sin being removed from Muslims and the sins of Muslims being laid or placed upon the Christians and
Jews.
In other words, Christians and Jews will pay the price for the sins of the Muslims.
“On the Day of Resurrection, some of the Muslims will come with sins” – Allaah will forgive the Muslims these sins and will absolve them of them, and He will put the like of those sins onto the Jews and Christians because of their kufr and sins. So they will enter Hell because of their own actions, not because of the sins of the Muslims.
Islam does not teach someone else paying the price for your sins. You sin, you pay.
The hadith qudsi quoted above is not from God but from a human. It cannot be authentic either. In fact, as you can see, the hadith contradicts itself when it says that those Jews and Christians who will enter hell will not do so because of the sins of Muslims but because of their own actions (their own sins).
Only the Qur'an is from God and God has made it clear:
[53.38] That no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another-
One might argue in case of Jesus that he was sinless (not bearing any burden) and could bear the sins of others but that won't be fair, would it? In such a situation anyone can freely sin and let Jesus bear the burden. It will be nothing but a charade.
No Jew or Christian is going to be responsible for my sins. Only I will be responsible.
Islam does not teach someone else paying the price for your sins. You sin, you pay.
The hadith qudsi quoted above is not from God but from a human. It cannot be authentic either. In fact, as you can see, the hadith contradicts itself when it says that those Jews and Christians who will enter hell will not do so because of the sins of Muslims but because of their own actions (their own sins).
Only the Qur'an is from God and God has made it clear:
[53.38] That no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another-
One might argue in case of Jesus that he was sinless (not bearing any burden) and could bear the sins of others but that won't be fair, would it? In such a situation anyone can freely sin and let Jesus bear the burden. It will be nothing but a charade.
No Jew or Christian is going to be responsible for my sins. Only I will be responsible.
We are responsible for our own thoughts, deeds, and actions, not those of another.
Islam does not teach someone else paying the price for your sins. You sin, you pay.
The hadith qudsi quoted above is not from God but from a human. It cannot be authentic either. In fact, as you can see, the hadith contradicts itself when it says that those Jews and Christians who will enter hell will not do so because of the sins of Muslims but because of their own actions (their own sins).
Only the Qur'an is from God and God has made it clear:
[53.38] That no bearer of burden shall bear the burden of another-
One might argue in case of Jesus that he was sinless (not bearing any burden) and could bear the sins of others but that won't be fair, would it? In such a situation anyone can freely sin and let Jesus bear the burden. It will be nothing but a charade.
No Jew or Christian is going to be responsible for my sins. Only I will be responsible.
That’s not how it works. Repentance and forgiveness, leading to salvation, is a true, heartfelt action of faith in Christ’s redemptive work. It’s not a license to sin, but rather a new life in Christ.
Neither Jesus, Mary & Joseph , all his apostles, even the first century church Never even heard of such a Doctrine.
the TRINITY is a Doctrine of Man, formulated 350 years after Christ, at the church council of 381 AD.
Satan Deceived the whole world !
Well, what matters is believing Jesus is God, otherwise how can you be saved? Jesus came to fulfill, to sacrifice, to save all who believe.
You may not need the intellectual part, such as the hypostatic union, Jesus being 100% god and 100% man, the nature of God and His persons. You may not need to understand this, in fact, it may confuse you into losing faith. Biggest faith flunkies I see think too much!
What you do need is faith Jesus is your savior, that He will save you, if you confess with your mouth and give your life over to his care. You cannot work your way to heaven and you sure can't intellectualize your self closer to God.
Billy to Bible study teacher: Why did God have to send himself down to earth to become his own son to sacrifice himself just to convince himself to forgive us?
When I consider whether the man, Christ Jesus, could be God, I have to say that it is a question that necessarily wants two answers. How can a man be God? How can a being come down and be born into a baby, and remain intellectually and emotionally intact? We know what it means to be born. We went through it. We were once that ignorant. So was Jesus. But I don't think it was cheating that His spirit was that of God.
Because He was formed of that Spirit, He grew into a different kind of man. He still grew into a man because of two things: He had Mary's half of the genetic contribution and He had the fact that we are made in God's image. Nothing there says it wouldn't work. His x chromosome would have been invisible, just like the nature of God is truly invisible. This is borne out by things that happened in His ministry, such as when He changed on the Mountain of Transfiguration. The story casually refers to His nature. It doesn't deny that He is a man at the same time.
As for remaining intellectually and emotionally intact, that was what the Holy Spirit did. Recall, He went with Zacharias, John's father, so that He could do a miracle and Elizabeth could have a baby. The Holy Spirit, however, wasn't required to give up anything, unlike the baby Jesus, in order to live in the human world. John was a unique person, in that he was born filled with the Spirit. He still couldn't eat or drink certain things, or the Spirit would leave him. The important thing is that the intact Holy Spirit, God with a continuous will, was part of the ministry. He came when Jesus was baptized. He came as an intact individual, into the world of men, by residing in His son.
Then, once the Spirit landed on Jesus, He would never leave Him. He, though being a man, was formed in such a way that the Spirit would stay with Him. He never stayed with anyone before that. That speaks to the importance of God doing it the way He did, so that God had an actual man upon whom He could land whom He would never leave. And, now, after Jesus and because of His work, He promises He won't leave us either.
But as for being eternal, and being that kind of being, it still doesn't make absolute sense, until you think about what it means to have eternal life. Eternal life is forever. If you have it, you go backwards as far as you go forwards. The one who can see that way is not ignorant of anything, unless they make themselves ignorant. The man, Jesus, had to be ignorant. He didn't have to go, though, without His nature, and whatever that meant. I guess the question is about the nature of now versus the nature of eternity? God seems to be in both things. The person of Jesus certainly speaks to both worlds. He had better, or there is no way out of here.
Last edited by Am I a Prophet; 10-23-2021 at 07:17 AM..
Reason: the writing process
Well, what matters is believing Jesus is God, otherwise how can you be saved? Jesus came to fulfill, to sacrifice, to save all who believe....................
I am wondering which Bible verses you have in mind ____________________
I find that God had No beginning according to Psalm 90:2.
In other words, only God was before the beginning of anything else visible or invisible creation.
Whereas I find Jesus was the beginning of the creation by God according to Revelation 3:14 B
So, Jesus was ' in ' the beginning but pre-human Jesus was never ' before ' the beginning as God was.
The Bible says God sent Jesus to Earth there is No verse saying God sent himself.
God sent His Son to fulfill Genesis 3:15 (the first prophecy) to sacrifice and save righteous believers.
I also find the resurrected ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him according to Revelation 3:12
When I consider whether the man, Christ Jesus, could be God, I have to say that it is a question that necessarily wants two answers. How can a man be God? How can a being come down and be born into a baby, and remain intellectually and emotionally intact? We know what it means to be born. We went through it. We were once that ignorant. So was Jesus. But I don't think it was cheating that His spirit was that of God.
Because He was formed of that Spirit, He grew into a different kind of man. He still grew into a man because of two things: He had Mary's half of the genetic contribution and He had the fact that we are made in God's image. Nothing there says it wouldn't work. His x chromosome would have been invisible, just like the nature of God is truly invisible. This is borne out by things that happened in His ministry, such as when He changed on the Mountain of Transfiguration. The story casually refers to His nature. It doesn't deny that He is a man at the same time.
As for remaining intellectually and emotionally intact, that was what the Holy Spirit did. Recall, He went with Zacharias, John's father, so that He could do a miracle and Elizabeth could have a baby. The Holy Spirit, however, wasn't required to give up anything, unlike the baby Jesus, in order to live in the human world. John was a unique person, in that he was born filled with the Spirit. He still couldn't eat or drink certain things, or the Spirit would leave him. The important thing is that the intact Holy Spirit, God with a continuous will, was part of the ministry. He came when Jesus was baptized. He came as an intact individual, into the world of men, by residing in His son.
Then, once the Spirit landed on Jesus, He would never leave Him. He, though being a man, was formed in such a way that the Spirit would stay with Him. He never stayed with anyone before that. That speaks to the importance of God doing it the way He did, so that God had an actual man upon whom He could land whom He would never leave. And, now, after Jesus and because of His work, He promises He won't leave us either.
But as for being eternal, and being that kind of being, it still doesn't make absolute sense, until you think about what it means to have eternal life. Eternal life is forever. If you have it, you go backwards as far as you go forwards. The one who can see that way is not ignorant of anything, unless they make themselves ignorant. The man, Jesus, had to be ignorant. He didn't have to go, though, without His nature, and whatever that meant. I guess the question is about the nature of now versus the nature of eternity? God seems to be in both things. The person of Jesus certainly speaks to both worlds. He had better, or there is no way out of here.
Human beings on earth were selected to evolve to procreate God's Spirit (I suspect there are sentient beings throughout the Cosmos selected for the same role). Our Solar System is the womb within which we are nurtured and develop our spiritual bodies (spiritual character and capabilities) in preparation to be "born again" as infant spirits upon our physical deaths. However, our "born again" human spirits would have remained separate from God until one of us achieved perfect resonance (Identity) with God's Holy Spirit.
Our ancestors were not only failing they were not even trying. At their best, they were responding out of fear of God's wrath by trying to be obedient to some set of commandments they thought God wanted us to obey. But the only way to connect all our human spirits with God was for one of them to achieve perfect resonance (Identity) with God's Holy Spirit of agape love, NOT obedience through fear of wrath. God sent His Holy Spirit specifically to become one of us and achieve that perfection.
Jesus was born as human so He could achieve perfect resonance in His human consciousness with God's Holy Spirit so that when He died, His human consciousness would be "born again" as the Comforter (Human version of the Holy Spirit) and connect all human spirits with God. He abides with us in our consciousness to guide us to the Truth God has "written in our hearts" with agape love. When we are in the states of mind associated with God's Holy Spirit as revealed and demonstrated by Jesus, He guides us and we cannot sin if we follow His guidance. When we are in other states of mind we are vulnerable to sin.
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Silly question:
