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The Hebrews were intelligent and were not as isolated as we believe them to be
Their focus was not on the literal physical but on the metaphoric, prophetic and how it related to the end of days and to specific times being spoken of which relate to Gods kingdom that they had their own part in preparing
The writings included in the Holy Scriptures are not to be understood at the lower levels, they have been crafted and built up from the other theological, philosophical documents and use the same metaphors, symbols - and have the same way of shrouding it in myths, narratives, parables, histories which are to be used and understood in a particular way
Rom 1:18**For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19**Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20**For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21**Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22**Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23**And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24**Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25**Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
We are a part of the “things” that are created/made that are to use our intellect and understanding for the “higher” and not be overly imaginative and foolish in mixing different types of things up
Well, you have your opinion Meerkat, but scholarship disagrees with you. You are correct however that the Hebrews were not isolated. They breathed the same cultural air that the other ancient Near East peoples breathed. The Hebrew Bible is full of such references.
We do know that the peoples of the ancient Near East regarded the physical organs of the body (not the brain) as the seat of emotion, intellect, and so on. For instance regarding the Egyptians, read the abstract below.
Abstract
The heart was regarded in Ancient Egypt as the organic motor of the body and also the seat of intelligence, an important religious and spiritual symbol. It was considered as one of the eight parts of human body. Counter to other organs it had to be kept carefully intact in the mummy to ensure its eternal life. In Ancient Egypt, the concept of heart included three constituents: heart-haty, heart-ib, and the spiritual seat of intelligence, emotion and memory. The hieroglyphs representing the heart early in the first dynasty were drawn with eight vessels attached to it. Egyptian doctors have elaborated an original conception of cardiovascular physiology which endured 30 centuries.
The Hebrews who by the way had spent a great deal of time in Egypt, were not scientifically or medically advanced. They simply had no knowledge concerning the function of the brain and attributed the soul functions to the bodily organs such as the heart and kidneys. The text of the Hebrew Bible bears this out.
Well, you have your opinion Meerkat, but scholarship disagrees with you. You are correct however that the Hebrews were not isolated. They breathed the same cultural air that the other ancient Near East peoples breathed. The Hebrew Bible is full of such references.
We do know that the peoples of the ancient Near East regarded the physical organs of the body (not the brain) as the seat of emotion, intellect, and so on. For instance regarding the Egyptians, read the abstract below.
Abstract
The heart was regarded in Ancient Egypt as the organic motor of the body and also the seat of intelligence, an important religious and spiritual symbol. It was considered as one of the eight parts of human body. Counter to other organs it had to be kept carefully intact in the mummy to ensure its eternal life. In Ancient Egypt, the concept of heart included three constituents: heart-haty, heart-ib, and the spiritual seat of intelligence, emotion and memory. The hieroglyphs representing the heart early in the first dynasty were drawn with eight vessels attached to it. Egyptian doctors have elaborated an original conception of cardiovascular physiology which endured 30 centuries.
The Hebrews who by the way had spent a great deal of time in Egypt, were not scientifically or medically advanced. They simply had no knowledge concerning the function of the brain and attributed the soul functions to the bodily organs such as the heart and kidneys. The text of the Hebrew Bible bears this out.
Egyptian hieroglyphics show that a particular Egyptian battle field doctor acknowledged the head trauma affected the brain itself and that was obviously impacting mens typical abilities from a lot of empirical evidence he saw first hand, Egyptians were more advanced than you give them credit for, they did have some wrong ideas on certain things, but we have western doctors today who still have the exact same issue.
Greeks had a decent understanding about brain, 4th and 5th century B.C. some greeks concluded the brain was the seat of sensation and the mind of man
Egyptian hieroglyphics show that a particular Egyptian battle field doctor acknowledged the head trauma affected the brain itself and that was obviously impacting mens typical abilities from a lot of empirical evidence he saw first hand, Egyptians were more advanced than you give them credit for, they did have some wrong ideas on certain things, but we have western doctors today who still have the exact same issue.
Greeks had a decent understanding about brain, 4th and 5th century B.C. some greeks concluded the brain was the seat of sensation and the mind of man
First of all you need to provide evidence to back up your claim concerning the hieroglyphics. Making an unsupported assertion is meaningless.
Secondly, I'm not referring to the Greeks. I'm talking about the Hebrew writers who wrote the Old Testament.
Thirdly, we know that when the Egyptians embalmed a person's body, they did not preserve the brain but did leave the heart in the body because they considered the heart to be the seat of the emotion and mind.
''Surprisingly, the brain was one of the few organs the Egyptians did not try to preserve. They weren't sure what it was for, but they assumed you wouldn't need it in the next world.
After they had removed the brain, the embalmers took a special blade made from obsidian (a sacred stone) and made a small incision along the left side of the body. They carefully removed the abdominal organs through this slit, setting each one aside (with the exception of the kidneys, which the Egyptians did not hold as important). After removing these organs, the embalmers cut open the diaphragm to remove the lungs. The Egyptians believed that the heart was the core of a person, the seat of emotion and the mind, so they almost always left it in the body. The other organs were washed, coated with resin, wrapped in linen strips and stored in decorative pottery. These vessels, which Egyptologists dubbed canopic jars, protected the organs for passage to the next world.''
First of all you need to provide evidence to back up your claim concerning the hieroglyphics. Making an unsupported assertion is meaningless.
Secondly, I'm not referring to the Greeks. I'm talking about the Hebrew writers who wrote the Old Testament.
Thirdly, we know that when the Egyptians embalmed a person's body, they did not preserve the brain but did leave the heart in the body because they considered the heart to be the seat of the emotion and mind.
''Surprisingly, the brain was one of the few organs the Egyptians did not try to preserve. They weren't sure what it was for, but they assumed you wouldn't need it in the next world.
After they had removed the brain, the embalmers took a special blade made from obsidian (a sacred stone) and made a small incision along the left side of the body. They carefully removed the abdominal organs through this slit, setting each one aside (with the exception of the kidneys, which the Egyptians did not hold as important). After removing these organs, the embalmers cut open the diaphragm to remove the lungs. The Egyptians believed that the heart was the core of a person, the seat of emotion and the mind, so they almost always left it in the body. The other organs were washed, coated with resin, wrapped in linen strips and stored in decorative pottery. These vessels, which Egyptologists dubbed canopic jars, protected the organs for passage to the next world.''
Edwin Smith Papyrus, its well known, I figured you would have known about this one, much of the education world does.
Ok. Yet that does nothing to negate the fact that the Egyptians regarded the heart, not the brain, as the seat of the emotions and mind just as the other ancient Near East peoples did, including the Hebrews. And in the case of the Hebrews, the kidneys as well were considered to be the seat of consciousness.
Ok. Yet that does nothing to negate the fact that the Egyptians regarded the heart, not the brain, as the seat of the emotions and mind just as the other ancient Near East peoples did, including the Hebrews. And in the case of the Hebrews, the kidneys as well were considered to be the seat of consciousness.
I believe the Hebrews were not concerned with the literal, their focus was in the symbolism (and prophecy)
If you look at the places in the Old Testament where the kidney is used it is linked to the sacrifices which are to be made
The Scriptures are highly symbolised and we are told that the wise become fools because of their imaginations/thoughts and literalism (Romans)
Exo 29:13
Then take all the fat on the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, and both kidneys with the fat on them, and burn them on the altar.
Exo 29:22
“Take from this ram the fat, the fat tail, the fat on the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, both kidneys with the fat on them, and the right thigh. (This is the ram for the ordination.)
Lev 3:4
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which you will remove with the kidneys.
Lev 3:10
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which you will remove with the kidneys.
Lev 3:15
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which you will remove with the kidneys.
Lev 4:9
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys—
Lev 7:4
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which is to be removed with the kidneys.
Lev 8:16
Moses also took all the fat around the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, and both kidneys and their fat, and burned it on the altar.
Lev 8:25
After that, he took the fat, the fat tail, all the fat around the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, both kidneys and their fat and the right thigh.
Lev 9:10
On the altar he burned the fat, the kidneys and the long lobe of the liver from the sin offering, as the LORD commanded Moses;
Lev 9:19
But the fat portions of the ox and the ram—the fat tail, the layer of fat, the kidneys and the long lobe of the liver—
Deu 32:14
with curds and milk from herd and flock and with fattened lambs and goats, with choice rams of Bashan and the finest kernels of wheat. You drank the foaming blood of the grape.
Job 16:13
his archers surround me. Without pity, he pierces my kidneys and spills my gall on the ground.
Job 19:27
I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!
Psa 7:9
Bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure— you, the righteous God who probes minds and hearts.
Psa 16:7
I will praise the LORD, who counsels me; even at night my heart instructs me.
Psa 26:2
Test me, LORD, and try me, examine my heart and my mind;
Psa 73:21
When my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered,
Psa 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
Pro 23:16
my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right.
Isa 34:6
The sword of the LORD is bathed in blood, it is covered with fat— the blood of lambs and goats, fat from the kidneys of rams. For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in the land of Edom.
Jer 11:20
But you, LORD Almighty, who judge righteously and test the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.
Jer 12:2
You have planted them, and they have taken root; they grow and bear fruit. You are always on their lips but far from their hearts.
Jer 17:10
“I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”
Jer 20:12
LORD Almighty, you who examine the righteous and probe the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.
Lam 3:13
He pierced my heart with arrows from his quiver.
I believe the Hebrews were not concerned with the literal, their focus was in the symbolism (and prophecy)
If you look at the places in the Old Testament where the kidney is used it is linked to the sacrifices which are to be made
The Scriptures are highly symbolised and we are told that the wise become fools because of their imaginations/thoughts and literalism (Romans)
Exo 29:13
Then take all the fat on the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, and both kidneys with the fat on them, and burn them on the altar.
Exo 29:22
“Take from this ram the fat, the fat tail, the fat on the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, both kidneys with the fat on them, and the right thigh. (This is the ram for the ordination.)
Lev 3:4
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which you will remove with the kidneys.
Lev 3:10
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which you will remove with the kidneys.
Lev 3:15
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which you will remove with the kidneys.
Lev 4:9
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which he will remove with the kidneys—
Lev 7:4
both kidneys with the fat on them near the loins, and the long lobe of the liver, which is to be removed with the kidneys.
Lev 8:16
Moses also took all the fat around the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, and both kidneys and their fat, and burned it on the altar.
Lev 8:25
After that, he took the fat, the fat tail, all the fat around the internal organs, the long lobe of the liver, both kidneys and their fat and the right thigh.
Lev 9:10
On the altar he burned the fat, the kidneys and the long lobe of the liver from the sin offering, as the LORD commanded Moses;
Lev 9:19
But the fat portions of the ox and the ram—the fat tail, the layer of fat, the kidneys and the long lobe of the liver—
Deu 32:14
with curds and milk from herd and flock and with fattened lambs and goats, with choice rams of Bashan and the finest kernels of wheat. You drank the foaming blood of the grape.
Job 16:13
his archers surround me. Without pity, he pierces my kidneys and spills my gall on the ground.
Job 19:27
I myself will see him with my own eyes—I, and not another. How my heart yearns within me!
Psa 7:9
Bring to an end the violence of the wicked and make the righteous secure— you, the righteous God who probes minds and hearts.
Psa 16:7
I will praise the LORD, who counsels me; even at night my heart instructs me.
Psa 26:2
Test me, LORD, and try me, examine my heart and my mind;
Psa 73:21
When my heart was grieved and my spirit embittered,
Psa 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
Pro 23:16
my inmost being will rejoice when your lips speak what is right.
Isa 34:6
The sword of the LORD is bathed in blood, it is covered with fat— the blood of lambs and goats, fat from the kidneys of rams. For the LORD has a sacrifice in Bozrah and a great slaughter in the land of Edom.
Jer 11:20
But you, LORD Almighty, who judge righteously and test the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.
Jer 12:2
You have planted them, and they have taken root; they grow and bear fruit. You are always on their lips but far from their hearts.
Jer 17:10
“I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve.”
Jer 20:12
LORD Almighty, you who examine the righteous and probe the heart and mind, let me see your vengeance on them, for to you I have committed my cause.
Lam 3:13
He pierced my heart with arrows from his quiver.
I have to disagree with your view that the Hebrews were not concerned with the literal (at all). And it's very natural for a people, including the Hebrews to wonder about things such as where the seat of consciousness resides in a person. I go with the scholarship on the issue being addressed in this thread.
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