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I believe the Scriptures speak more to that of death, rather than the immortality of the soul.
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Originally Posted by Meerkat2
I believe it has many layers...
However, the scriptures, as read, regarding this topic don't indicate 'many layers'. The 'layers' you speak of are rather the extra padding of men but believed by most Christians. In fact, these man-made beliefs often become so ingrained in the Christian mind that, should another individual come along attempting to question or even quash that belief, in this case with actual scripture, this may well lead to personal discomfort and frustration and even to hostility by the original party. No one exactly relishes the idea that they could be wrong. Moreover, and in particular, no one ever wants to believe that their beloved church may have gotten it wrong.
At the end of the day, unless it's majorly important, it's probably best to let sleeping dogs lie (another cliche) and let people believe what they believe. However, for me anyway when it comes to Christianity, I could never become a part of a belief system that taught something that I just knew was false. But, each to his own.
He is doing his own research in the areas that interest him
As you do
It seems to me Everyone gets into a variety of “modes” with the Scriptures:- defend, attack, abandon, or research
I’m not really interested in telling people what they “should” do, that’s up to each individual
We can not individually know everything
If Michael was interested in 'research' he would not be here asking a question that can be answered quite easily by his researching scripture. This IS what I have attempted to do, evidently to my own detriment. Moreover, Michael has shown a deal of hostility toward me due to the scriptures that I've presented. He clearly rejects those scriptures because he doesn't like them. He tells me that I'm cherry-picking. Therefore I feel quite okay at using the word 'should' regarding his setting me straight (i.e. educating me) in areas where he feels that I'm lacking. He has not done so. Moreover, while I suspect that you're on the same page as Michael, why you're using the term 'we cannot individually know everything' I have no idea. All I have done is to present scripture 'as is' without any extra padding and have not once indicated that "I" know everything.
However, the scriptures, as read, regarding this topic don't indicate 'many layers'. The 'layers' you speak of are rather the extra padding of men but believed by most Christians. In fact, these man-made beliefs often become so ingrained in the Christian mind that, should another individual come along attempting to question or even quash that belief, in this case with actual scripture, this may well lead to personal discomfort and frustration and even to hostility by the original party. No one exactly relishes the idea that they could be wrong. Moreover, and in particular, no one ever wants to believe that their beloved church may have gotten it wrong.
At the end of the day, unless it's majorly important, it's probably best to let sleeping dogs lie (another cliche) and let people believe what they believe. However, for me anyway when it comes to Christianity, I could never become a part of a belief system that taught something that I just knew was false. But, each to his own.
I have not been a part of organised religion since my teens, except for a short stint a few years ago when I resumed interest in the Scriptures. I was brought up in a Pentecostal church but had exactly that sort of thing happen, some of the things I knew were forced and did not seem right at an ethical level, the huge one for me was the concept of eternal torment.
On one level I believe there is something to it, but at another level I believe that all of the different denominations have a piece and my place is not in any one of those pieces.
Yep I agree with each to their own
Edit: the layering I mention is not just with this “part” specifically, it is with the whole that is layered, diversified, symbolised, etc
If Michael was interested in 'research' he would not be here asking a question that can be answered quite easily by his researching scripture. This IS what I have attempted to do, evidently to my own detriment. Moreover, Michael has shown a deal of hostility toward me due to the scriptures that I've presented. He clearly rejects those scriptures because he doesn't like them. He tells me that I'm cherry-picking. Therefore I feel quite okay at using the word 'should' regarding his setting me straight (i.e. educating me) in areas where he feels that I'm lacking. He has not done so. Moreover, while I suspect that you're on the same page as Michael, why you're using the term 'we cannot individually know everything' I have no idea. All I have done is to present scripture 'as is' without any extra padding and have not once indicated that "I" know everything.
I didn't ask the question. The question was asked by the person who was answered by Michael Heiser in the video. I posted the video because I like the way that Heiser answered the question and posted it for others to hear. The thread's title is the title of the video.
With the apostle Paul, I am quite confident that to be absent from the body (again, that means 'NOT Resurrection', resurrection would be 'in body, not absent from the body) is to be at home with the Lord. Resurrection comes later after the intermediate state in which the believer is in heaven.
With the apostle Paul, I am quite confident that to be absent from the body (again, that means 'NOT Resurrection', resurrection would be 'in body, not absent from the body) is to be at home with the Lord. Resurrection comes later after the intermediate state in which the believer is in heaven.
Then Michael should spend more time interpreting - or RE-interpreting - those scriptures to educate me into his belief rather than aiming his frustration and hostility at me.
You sure are a whiner. Anyone who disagrees with you is frustrated and hostile toward you. It's as though you want to feel like people are being hostile to you so you can feel like a martyr.
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I'm not exactly stupid
Yes you are. Arrogance makes people stupid.
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and those scriptures speak quite clearly to me without any extra man-made interpretations thrown into the mix.
I listened the the video by Michael Heiser, where I find he makes a lot of assumptions predicated on a particular belief. However, in all reality no one knows if there is an after life or not, it is merely that which is believed. Like that of seeing our loved ones as they appeared, or looked before their death. Do I think there is anything wrong with that? No, as mortal beings our existence and continued existence is something that gives us comfort, even though we do not truly know - that's why many hold onto faith and hope in an afterlife. Although, it could very well be like Socrates said, "death resembles that of sleep without dreams." Yet, there is hope for a resurrection.
I listened the the video by Michael Heiser, where I find he makes a lot of assumptions predicated on a particular belief. However, in all reality no one knows if there is an after life or not, it is merely that which is believed. Like that of seeing our loved ones as they appeared, or looked before their death. Do I think there is anything wrong with that? No, as mortal beings our existence and continued existence is something that gives us comfort, even though we do not truly know - that's why many hold onto faith and hope in an afterlife. Although, it could very well be like Socrates said, "death resembles that of sleep without dreams." Yet, there is hope for a resurrection.
Jesus knew it, the apostles knew it. The book of Revelation shows people in heaven prior to the resurrection. I have no reason to doubt it. Your doubts are your own.
I listened the the video by Michael Heiser, where I find he makes a lot of assumptions predicated on a particular belief. However, in all reality no one knows if there is an after life or not, it is merely that which is believed. Like that of seeing our loved ones as they appeared, or looked before their death. Do I think there is anything wrong with that? No, as mortal beings our existence and continued existence is something that gives us comfort, even though we do not truly know - that's why many hold onto faith and hope in an afterlife. Although, it could very well be like Socrates said, "death resembles that of sleep without dreams." Yet, there is hope for a resurrection.
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Originally Posted by Michael Way
Jesus knew it, the apostles knew it. The book of Revelation shows people in heaven prior to the resurrection. I have no reason to doubt it. Your doubts are your own.
Have you ever had a vision, outside of that book that so many worship. I don't believe it was meant to hold people in bondage to that of a belief-system, rather to help us grow and reach our full potential. One that exhibits love and compassion, not damnation - if you don't believe exactly what some Christian fundamentalist says you should believe, or else? Neither, do I believe it was meant to separate and divide humanity, but to bring about unity. Although, as long as people use it as a weapon of mass destruction that's never going to happen.
Have you ever had a vision, outside of that book that so many worship. I don't believe it was meant to hold people in bondage to that of a belief-system, rather to help us grow and reach our full potential. One that exhibits love and compassion, not damnation - if you don't believe exactly what some Christian fundamentalist says you should believe, or else? Neither, do I believe it was meant to separate and divide humanity, but to bring about unity. Although, as long as people use it as a weapon of mass destruction that's never going to happen.
You are now going off field. Either Jesus and the apostles told the truth about life after death, or they didn't. It's that simple.
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