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He went to the grave (not a fanciful paradise), and his life force (breath, spirit) went back from whence it came. But according to your beliefs, it was returned upon the resurrection of his physical body from the dead, again, the grave is not paradise! Neither is it an underworld of pain and suffering.
Jesus told the criminal that they would both be in paradise that day. The grave is not paradise as you yourself just admitted. The Jews also referred to paradise as 'Abraham's Bosom.'
Jesus told the criminal that they would both be in paradise that day. The grave is not paradise as you yourself just admitted. The Jews also referred to paradise as 'Abraham's Bosom.'
I agree with you, Mike. But what about the man who hung on the other side of Jesus, the one who died unrepentant? What do you believe the status of his spirit will be prior to his being resurrected? If the righteous go to paradise (as I agree they do, and which I believe is not the same place as our ultimate destination), what about the wicked?
He went to the grave (not a fanciful paradise), and his life force (breath, spirit) went back from whence it came. But according to your beliefs, it was returned upon the resurrection of his physical body from the dead, again, the grave is not paradise! Neither is it an underworld of pain and suffering.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Jesus told the criminal that they would both be in paradise that day. The grave is not paradise as you yourself just admitted. The Jews also referred to paradise as 'Abraham's Bosom.'
He said the man will be with him, as in a future tense, not immediately.
To what the Bible calls hades. Sheol is the Old Testament term.
I agree with your last statement.
Lk 23:43 Jesus and thief would be in "paradise " that same day.
Acts 2:27-31 Jesus's soul would not be abandoned in hades and His body would not decay.
Paradise as you probably know is an old persian word meaning enclosure, garden, park..... John 20:17 Jesus said He had not yet ascended to God.
So with that known, Christ clearly went to hades for a short time, the thief would have gone to same exact place, lk 16 Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom with all other saints which is one part of hades, it was pleasant there. That is the paradise talked about. Nobody can argue with the explicit words that Christ's soul wouldn't stay forever in hades. Bible NEVER said Jesus went straight to heaven, so thief didn't either. Bible explains itself clearly on this matter.
I agree with you, Mike. But what about the man who hung on the other side of Jesus, the one who died unrepentant? What do you believe the status of his spirit will be prior to his being resurrected? If the righteous go to paradise (as I agree they do, and which I believe is not the same place as our ultimate destination), what about the wicked?
Hi, Katz. Well, I believe that before the cross paradise was a compartment of Hades. While the righteous went to paradise the unrighteous went to another part of Hades. Additionally, Peter stated in 2 Peter 2:4 that the angels who took part in the Genesis 6:4 event in which they took human women as wives who gave birth to the Nephilim were confined to 'Tartarus.' In Greek thought Tartarus was the lowest part of Hades or was beneath Hades. Peter applied the terminology to the prison in which those angels are imprisoned until their final judgment.
After the cross paradise was transferred to what Paul called the third heaven as per 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. The unrighteous remain in Hades until the great white throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15.
Lk 23:43 Jesus and thief would be in "paradise " that same day.
Acts 2:27-31 Jesus's soul would not be abandoned in hades and His body would not decay.
Paradise as you probably know is an old persian word meaning enclosure, garden, park..... John 20:17 Jesus said He had not yet ascended to God.
So with that known, Christ clearly went to hades for a short time, the thief would have gone to same exact place, lk 16 Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom with all other saints which is one part of hades, it was pleasant there. That is the paradise talked about. Nobody can argue with the explicit words that Christ's soul wouldn't stay forever in hades. Bible NEVER said Jesus went straight to heaven, so thief didn't either. Bible explains itself clearly on this matter.
Hi, Katz. Well, I believe that before the cross paradise was a compartment of Hades. While the righteous went to paradise the unrighteous went to another part of Hades. Additionally, Peter stated in 2 Peter 2:4 that the angels who took part in the Genesis 6:4 event in which they took human women as wives who gave birth to the Nephilim were confined to 'Tartarus.' In Greek thought Tartarus was the lowest part of Hades or was beneath Hades. Peter applied the terminology to the prison in which those angels are imprisoned until their final judgment.
After the cross paradise was transferred to what Paul called the third heaven as per 2 Corinthians 12:2-4. The unrighteous remain in Hades until the great white throne judgment of Revelation 20:11-15.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyKurreto
I agree with your last statement.
Lk 23:43 Jesus and thief would be in "paradise " that same day.
Acts 2:27-31 Jesus's soul would not be abandoned in hades and His body would not decay.
Paradise as you probably know is an old persian word meaning enclosure, garden, park..... John 20:17 Jesus said He had not yet ascended to God.
So with that known, Christ clearly went to hades for a short time, the thief would have gone to same exact place, lk 16 Lazarus goes to Abraham's bosom with all other saints which is one part of hades, it was pleasant there. That is the paradise talked about. Nobody can argue with the explicit words that Christ's soul wouldn't stay forever in hades. Bible NEVER said Jesus went straight to heaven, so the thief didn't either. Bible explains itself clearly on this matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Yes. That's right.
The creativity of human imagination cannot be denied, but this is so very sad - such detailed nonsense to maintain a belief in a wrathful, vengeful War God who needs to be appeased by blood sacrifice and eternal torment for not believing nonsense. Incredible!.
I agree with you, Mike. But what about the man who hung on the other side of Jesus, the one who died unrepentant? What do you believe the status of his spirit will be prior to his being resurrected? If the righteous go to paradise (as I agree they do, and which I believe is not the same place as our ultimate destination), what about the wicked?
I see more of a composition, it’s not just about the body that dies and a spirit - what I see is that there is soul that is connected to the spirit and flesh, but the soul does not go to places it has not been reformed to, the spirit can descend down and lift the soul up, the soul can not do it by itself
And this has to do with that dimensional thing that mike and I have been speaking of which I believe is unlimited, we advance toward that as we are ready
1Th 5:23**And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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Incredible!.
