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satan said you positively will not die, Jehovah said you will die. The Bible clearly defines death, nothing lives on. The resurrection of all those who are not of the 144k will begin after the Kingdom comes.
.... and of course we ALL know those 144k are all Jehovah witnesses. Where do I sign up?
I'm not any denomination these days but I DO find that the SDA belief on this particular topic is the closest to scripture that I've come across. That said, and to be perfectly honest, I WAS baptized into (?) the Adventist Church back in 1988 and I DID do a great deal of Bible study as was encouraged by that church. I've mentioned this several times previously on the forum so it certainly isn't something that I've kept secret.
One major thing that encouraged me to team up with the SDAs initially was their openness in telling me or anyone else to call them out should we believe that 'this SDA doctrine or that SDA doctrine' not tally with the Bible. There were a couple of 'iffy' beliefs that I did bring to their attention but, for the most part, they were good. The church claimed to be also open to modifying an existing belief if necessary should 'new light' come along.
Anyway, I remained an active member of the church until losing interest in organized Christianity in general. That would now be around 15 years ago. The only time that I've been back to church is if I've received an invitation for a friend's son or daughter getting baptized.
So, where do we go when we die? 'Post-size' contributions to the thread can't adequately handle a topic of this nature. It takes genuine study of the Bible starting out with a mind that is free from the clutter of the man-made beliefs of one's denomination.
I'm not any denomination these days but I DO find that the SDA belief on this particular topic is the closest to scripture that I've come across. That said, and to be perfectly honest, I WAS baptized into (?) the Adventist Church back in 1988 and I DID do a great deal of Bible study as was encouraged by that church. I've mentioned this several times previously on the forum so it certainly isn't something that I've kept secret.
One major thing that encouraged me to team up with the SDAs initially was their openness in telling me or anyone else to call them out should we believe that 'this SDA doctrine or that SDA doctrine' not tally with the Bible. There were a couple of 'iffy' beliefs that I did bring to their attention but, for the most part, they were good. The church claimed to be also open to modifying an existing belief if necessary should 'new light' come along.
Anyway, I remained an active member of the church until losing interest in organized Christianity in general. That would now be around 15 years ago. The only time that I've been back to church is if I've received an invitation for a friend's son or daughter getting baptized.
So, where do we go when we die? 'Post-size' contributions to the thread can't adequately handle a topic of this nature. It takes genuine study of the Bible starting out with a mind that is free from the clutter of the man-made beliefs of one's denomination.
I believe that Purgatory is different, though, in that the stay there is generally just temporary, and that a person can be "released" into their final destination once they have been "purged" of their sins, hence prayers, etc. for the recently deceased. And still, they apparently wouldn't have a resurrected body, so I'm not sure what the distinction between Purgatory and Heaven would even be. (I don't know if you're Catholic or not, but if you are, and I've got that wrong, please correct me.)
Also, I find the term "holding tank" to be kind of demeaning. Our unembodied spirits don't need some kind of an enclosure to contain them, nor would one be at all effective.
Yeah, "holding tank" does sound like some kind of 'jail'
Heiser doesn't address it, but I would expect that some sort of 'clean up' would be necessary before being admitted into the full presence of God (bible verse 'nothing unclean shall enter heaven').
No one knows if this happens in an instant or 'over time' so the soul can bear it - but I have a hunch (actually NDE experience) that in Gods presence the hyper-awareness & ramifications of any remaining unconfessed/unforgiven sin would be unbearable but for the aid of Christ.
Yeah, "holding tank" does sound like some kind of 'jail'
Heiser doesn't address it, but I would expect that some sort of 'clean up' would be necessary before being admitted into the full presence of God (bible verse 'nothing unclean shall enter heaven').
No one knows if this happens in an instant or 'over time' so the soul can bear it - but I have a hunch (actually NDE experience) that in Gods presence the hyper-awareness & ramifications of any remaining unconfessed/unforgiven sin would be unbearable but for the aid of Christ.
Would you mind sharing your NDE, if it's not too personal?
Yeah, "holding tank" does sound like some kind of 'jail'
Heiser doesn't address it, but I would expect that some sort of 'clean up' would be necessary before being admitted into the full presence of God (bible verse 'nothing unclean shall enter heaven').
No one knows if this happens in an instant or 'over time' so the soul can bear it - but I have a hunch (actually NDE experience) that in Gods presence the hyper-awareness & ramifications of any remaining unconfessed/unforgiven sin would be unbearable but for the aid of Christ.
Heiser doesn't believe in some purgatory so far as I know. Neither do I. Since it is not our righteousness which qualifies us to go into the presence of the Lord when we die, but the imputed righteousness of Jesus which is credited to us the moment we trust in Jesus for salvation which qualifies us, no cleanup in some purgatory after we die is necessary.
Hebrews 10:14 says that those who are being sanctified have been perfected for all time.
Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
God already sees the believer as having been made perfect, not experientially, but positionally by virtue of our position in Christ. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. No matter how good our own righteousness is, it can never be good enough to qualify us to enter into God's presence. That is why God credits the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ to us when we trust in him for salvation.
Jesus told his disciples just before he was arrested that except for Judas Iscariot they were all clean (John 13:10-11). Judas had never trusted in Jesus for salvation even though he had been a disciple or student of Jesus during Jesus' ministry. But the others had trusted in Jesus and therefore were clean. Jesus told Peter that having been made clean he needed only to wash his feet. That was a reference to confession of sin as per 1 John 1:9. When we sin we need only confess the sin to God and he forgives the sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness (all unknown and forgotten sins).
I don't expect though that you will agree with all this since it goes against Roman Catholic theology.
Would you mind sharing your NDE, if it's not too personal?
A few years ago I was involved in a ranching accident that left me beaten, blinded, bleeding to death, unconscious, and all alone with nobody for miles.
Yet somehow while lying there 'unconscious' it was like my consciousness became hyper-aware of 'everything all at once' (including life flash).
Two months in the hospital and another year to recover, the details are too personal to post on public forum - but I can PM some notes I've shared with friends (you're on my friends list! ) if you would like.
Heiser doesn't believe in some purgatory so far as I know. Neither do I. Since it is not our righteousness which qualifies us to go into the presence of the Lord when we die, but the imputed righteousness of Jesus which is credited to us the moment we trust in Jesus for salvation which qualifies us, no cleanup in some purgatory after we die is necessary.
Hebrews 10:14 says that those who are being sanctified have been perfected for all time.
Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
God already sees the believer as having been made perfect, not experientially, but positionally by virtue of our position in Christ. We are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. No matter how good our own righteousness is, it can never be good enough to qualify us to enter into God's presence. That is why God credits the perfect righteousness of Jesus Christ to us when we trust in him for salvation.
Jesus told his disciples just before he was arrested that except for Judas Iscariot they were all clean (John 13:10-11). Judas had never trusted in Jesus for salvation even though he had been a disciple or student of Jesus during Jesus' ministry. But the others had trusted in Jesus and therefore were clean. Jesus told Peter that having been made clean he needed only to wash his feet. That was a reference to confession of sin as per 1 John 1:9. When we sin we need only confess the sin to God and he forgives the sin and cleanses us from all unrighteousness (all unknown and forgotten sins).
I don't expect though that you will agree with all this since it goes against Roman Catholic theology.
This is what my Southern Baptist church teaches. Do I remember correctly that you were Baptist at one point?
Heiser doesn't believe in some purgatory so far as I know. Neither do I. Since it is not our righteousness which qualifies us to go into the presence of the Lord when we die, but the imputed righteousness of Jesus which is credited to us the moment we trust in Jesus for salvation which qualifies us, no cleanup in some purgatory after we die is necessary.
Hebrews 10:14 says that those who are being sanctified have been perfected for all time.
Hebrews 10:14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified.
Since you do not believe in repentance and you do not think you need to try to love God and each other every day, and you think you somehow are able to truly CHOOSE what you believe, exactly what do you think you are doing to be among those who are being sanctified????
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.... and of course we ALL know those 144k are all Jehovah witnesses. Where do I sign up? 
) if you would like.
