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And they were both naked (arummim), the man and his wife, and were not ashamed" (Gen. 2:25). Immediately after that we are told, "Now the serpent was more cunning (arum) than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made" (Gen. 3:1). In one verse the term arummim is used to mean "naked" and in the next verse the same basic root denotes "cunning" or "subtle." So, who or where was this snake, if not within the nature of man himself, as they were naked, subtle and cunning (or so they thought as they hid themselves)?
The most beautiful creature is the covering Cherub of the garden.
What did he cover Adam and Eve with?
Ezekiel
13Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Revelation
The return of the covering Cherub, the most beautiful creature and His covering of precious stones.
And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
I think I have said this before, but I believe that what we got from the tree was a self-referencing consciousness. For what it's worth to those who are looking, this means a change that God knew we needed, but one which He could not make us to include from the beginning.
I think God removed Adam from the rest of the people because Adam was the first to show God the promise He was looking for in man. God didn't wait for a perfect man. That doesn't mean that Adam wasn't perfect. I'm just saying that knowing the love of God, He wouldn't wait.
The creation story is not just two fold, having two narratives in Genesis. It also projects to tell us how we will develop over the next six thousand years to now. It pertains to how what we are going through now was always supposed to be part of our development. The book of Revelation also refers to this, when it breaks its occurrences down into a similar format. It is a way of referring to the elements that make up what we call life/society. Those passages refer to how God interacts with man in specific ways, using symbolism.
Adam and Eve knew no evil, they had no idea what sin was. They were perfect and in a perfect atmosphere. If God had not placed the possibility of sin before them in the Tree of Good and Evil, sin would not have entered the world and we would not be in this mess.
When they sinned by disobeying God, everything fell with man. The plant world fell, the animal world fell, even the ground/soil fell. All that was perfect has now fallen into a curse, all because of sin.
God knew this would happen! So why did He allow it to happen? Some say God is unjust and cruel enjoying the suffering of man on this earth. Others say He lost control of His creation. This is stupidity to say the least.
Actually, the scripture doesn't straight out tell us why He placed that Tree in the Garden. After reading the thoughts of many Theologians through the years, I have come to the conclusion that God wanted to show man from the very beginning who he really is in his natural state. Man is self-seeking, a pleaser of himself, clearly seen in his believing the lie of Satan over God.
It's no secret God wants man to worship Him, but He will not have robots running about. He wants us to love, honor and worship Him of our own free will. The first step of achieving this is to show man who he really is left on his own. Man with this free will must choose what he will do with that free will. He has no choice but to make that choice, his way or God's way.
Personally, I look at this life we live, and a short time it really is compared to eternity, as the period of time God has given us to make that choice. Some have more time than others to make that choice, that is totally in the hands of God.
But make that choice we must, no way around it, ignoring it is the choice to ignore God and choose one's own way through this life. So this leaves us with the question, what is God's way?
His way is the way of life and our way is the way of death, spiritually speaking.
So we have an inevitable choice to make in this life. That choice will determine our final destiny after this life is over on this earth. It is without a doubt the most important decision man will ever make.
Some good thoughts here, Charlie. Where do I start? I'll first come out and just say this: man would I love to be God. I don't think there's a single person who could honestly say this wouldn't be like the most awesome thing in the world. The only problem with that is that I don't have that capacity because I don't know everything about the world, I don't know the end from the beginning and I can't control much of anything. So though it would be pretty cool, it just is not reality.
Second thought--it's pretty clear that we have a choice whether to believe in God or not. I feel sad that the church's testimony is the dismal way it is in this country; it will be very hard for the church leaders come judgment day. They will have a lot of explaining to do. It is sad too that a lot of people look at the church to judge what they feel about God, because the church is a bunch of miserable sinners who keep screwing up; however, I can see why they do that and it is not unreasonable. After all, the church is the Lord's bride; we and him are one.
Speculation here of course, because as you say God gives no explanation for why he put the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil there: It was a test to see what Adam, as the federal head of all mankind, would do--would he trust God or believe that he himself knows better? Well, we know what the majority of people (at least in this country) believe--that they know better than God. Adam felt the same way. Adam was a perfectly free-willed being in the garden with the ability to act righteously of his own free will or to not act righteously. When he disobeyed God's one commandment and which by that action stated that he did not trust in God, he gave up his ability to act righteously of his own free will. Now all born into this world are represented by Adam (and don't have the ability to do anything that God sees as a good act).
I think people may see that as unfair, but it's God's world and he makes up the rules. I don't think anyone would disagree that this world can be a pretty awesome place, despite some of the bad things that naturally happen. Really the only thing that makes it a complete horror show for some people is the evil things done by other people. God could have left us in this mess to live out miserable pathetic existences with no hope (which is what many people choose to do, unfortunately). Yet he revealed the way of life. Anyone reading this should be made aware that if everyone followed the full 10 commandments, all drawn out into all the facets of life which they affect, this world would not have any of the evil things exist in it which people do to one another. There is no argument against that which would stand. There would absolutely be no hurt done to anyone. The things which would be catastrophic would be limited to the natural disasters which befall the earth. And with everyone truly loving one another and seeking the benefit of their neighbor, even much of the evil that besets life in that way would be mitigated.
But, many people in this world believe that they know better than God. That is what Adam felt when he sinned the first time and brought that evil into the world. So here we are, many of us, fighting a losing battle against the creator of the world (I was that way until my mid-30s until God softened my heart to seek to know him. I still cannot understand to this day why I received such mercy because I in no way deserve it).
I really feel it comes down to that it's a matter of trust. I believe it is in one of the proverbs, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." And to know the Lord Jesus is the best thing ever. He is a rock which will stand all storms. He is a true rest and peace for the soul. He has taken all our sins upon himself and became that perfect sacrifice to take away the sin of the world so that we can have perfect fellowship with God, the only thing that will bring us lasting peace and true happiness. Some things can be pretty nice and peaceful here and can bring us a bit of happiness, but it wears away. Only by knowing God can that existence be eternal and never fade (not that it won't in this life when sin still abounds). Our hearts are restless until they find their rest in God; I'm sure many know that as a cliched saying, but man is it the truth.
Adam and Eve knew no evil, they had no idea what sin was. They were perfect and in a perfect atmosphere. If God had not placed the possibility of sin before them in the Tree of Good and Evil, sin would not have entered the world and we would not be in this mess.
When they sinned by disobeying God, everything fell with man. The plant world fell, the animal world fell, even the ground/soil fell. All that was perfect has now fallen into a curse, all because of sin.
God knew this would happen! So why did He allow it to happen? Some say God is unjust and cruel enjoying the suffering of man on this earth. Others say He lost control of His creation. This is stupidity to say the least.
Actually, the scripture doesn't straight out tell us why He placed that Tree in the Garden. After reading the thoughts of many Theologians through the years, I have come to the conclusion that God wanted to show man from the very beginning who he really is in his natural state. Man is self-seeking, a pleaser of himself, clearly seen in his believing the lie of Satan over God.
It's no secret God wants man to worship Him, but He will not have robots running about. He wants us to love, honor and worship Him of our own free will. The first step of achieving this is to show man who he really is left on his own. Man with this free will must choose what he will do with that free will. He has no choice but to make that choice, his way or God's way.
Personally, I look at this life we live, and a short time it really is compared to eternity, as the period of time God has given us to make that choice. Some have more time than others to make that choice, that is totally in the hands of God.
But make that choice we must, no way around it, ignoring it is the choice to ignore God and choose one's own way through this life. So this leaves us with the question, what is God's way?
His way is the way of life and our way is the way of death, spiritually speaking.
So we have an inevitable choice to make in this life. That choice will determine our final destiny after this life is over on this earth. It is without a doubt the most important decision man will ever make.
Ultimately, it's because he knew that they would sin. He knew that the human race would be corrupted, and that he'd send Jesus to die to redeem those that trust in him.
He knows who will believe, because he predestined them from before the foundations of the world to do so.
So why did he do it? Because ultimately it demonstrates his attributes. He's omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He's all loving, but also just and holy. He chose to do it the way he did it because he wanted to -- because he used it to bring glory to himself.
Ultimately, it's because he knew that they would sin. He knew that the human race would be corrupted, and that he'd send Jesus to die to redeem those that trust in him.
He knows who will believe, because he predestined them from before the foundations of the world to do so.
So why did he do it? Because ultimately it demonstrates his attributes. He's omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He's all loving, but also just and holy. He chose to do it the way he did it because he wanted to -- because he used it to bring glory to himself.
So, you’re saying that G-d is narcissistic?...Josef Mengele did the same thing to people to bring glory of the Third Reich...
Ultimately, it's because he knew that they would sin. He knew that the human race would be corrupted, and that he'd send Jesus to die to redeem those that trust in him.
He knows who will believe, because he predestined them from before the foundations of the world to do so.
So why did he do it? Because ultimately it demonstrates his attributes. He's omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent. He's all loving, but also just and holy. He chose to do it the way he did it because he wanted to -- because he used it to bring glory to himself.
I am starting to believe those who hold to the lie of eternal torment have no common sense or logic.
So God predestined those who would be saved and sends the rest into the eternal fires of hell and you say that view of God is Just
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