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Old 07-09-2021, 08:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, I thought that HaSatan was rebellious?...
I thought he was too.
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:07 AM
 
Location: Florida -
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From the beginning in the Garden of Eden, it's been made apparent that God created mankind for relationship with himself. Of course, God could have simply created robots (like so many Stepford wives), but, in order to have a true love-based relationship, mankind had to be able to freely choose OR ignore/ reject God's ways, truth, love, mercy, grace and relationship.

Since sin and evil cannot abide in God's Holy presence and light, Earth was created for mankind. The 'forbidden tree/fruit' was placed in the Garden of Eden by God, to give mankind a choice between good and evil, Satan was permitted to rise-up in an effort to make himself higher than God. God could have cast Satan down to anyplace in the universe, but chose to cast him down for a specific role and purpose on Earth.
That role/purpose is to use temptation, deceit and lies to persuade men to disobey God and truth, in favor of Satan's lies and deceit.

Satan (created by God as a type of angel), can only operate within God's restrictions and cannot 'force' people to do anything (or, of course, overcome/overpower God). God, likewise, does not 'force' people to obey Him or follow His will, although His ultimate desire and will is that mankind will make that choice.

Today, the tree/fruit in the garden of Eden are a metaphor for the fleshly things of this world which draw
human worship/allegiance and obedience away from God.

Last edited by jghorton; 07-09-2021 at 09:16 AM..
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
From the beginning in the Garden of Eden, it's been made apparent that God created mankind for relationship with himself. Of course, God could have simply created robots (like so many Stepford wives), but, in order to have a true love-based relationship, mankind had to be able to choose or not choose God's ways, truth, love, mercy, grace ... and relationship. Since sin and evil cannot abide in God's Holy presence and light, Earth was created for mankind. The 'forbidden tree/fruit' was placed in the Garden of Eden by God, to give mankind a choice between good and evil,

Satan was cast-down from heaven, because he "rose up and sought to make himself higher than the most high". He could have been cast down to any place in God's universe, in lieu of Earth, but, God has assigned Satan a specific role here. That role is to use temptation and lies to persuade men to disobey God and truth, in favor of Satan's lies and deceit. Satan must operate within God's restrictions and cannot force people to do anything. God, likewise, does not 'force' people to obey Him or follow His will, although His desire is that they will. Today, the tree/fruit in the garden of Eden are a metaphor for the fleshly things of this world which draw
human allegiance and obedience away from God.
I would agree with that and say that if man doesn't want the righteousness of God he can choose not to accept it and live in unrighteousness with all the consequences of such!

If he wants no part of God, then God wants no part of him! Man gets his way in the end!
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24 View Post
Duval, I have no words!
i do
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Old 07-09-2021, 09:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Well, I thought that HaSatan was rebellious?...
the current image of Satan came after the exile,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahriman
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Old 07-09-2021, 10:00 AM
 
Location: Middle America
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Whatever the reason was, it's as irrelevant as talking donkeys and flying scrolls and all the other olde timey stories of the OT.

Luckily, Jesus came along and provided some much-needed normalcy and sanity.
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Old 07-09-2021, 10:17 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24 View Post
I thought he was too.
So, then he had no free will?...
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Old 07-09-2021, 10:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie24 View Post
You can see it however you like! But one thing has not changed, Adam and Eve chose their way in this world just as we still do.
Thats not the best way to look at it...our situation and theirs are TOTALLY different!


Adam and Eve only knew the garden of Eden, (they are as new born babies in that sense)...the only reason they were tempted is because (for some reason), Satan was permitted to enter into Eden.(this really needs to be explained too)...


If we as parents 'ALLOW' a dangerous person to harm our children...WE ARE GUILTY just as much as the person who harmed them...its a parents job to protect and shield their children from certain harm...


Would you 'test' your children by allowing a child killer to come into contact with them? LOL
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Old 07-09-2021, 10:32 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
So, then he had no free will?...
That is quite a misunderstanding you have there, Richard!

Satan can only cause one harm by causing you to cause harm to yourself!

How does he do that?

Peter said Satan walks to and fro on the earth seeking whom he may devour.

The lure and enticement of sin is how he does it.

The cohorts with Satan know your weaknesses better than you, they watch every move you make, the just that is.

They put that weakness before you when you least expect it, they bombard your mind with the former pleasures of sin you once knew, the sins you desire and have never done. They know about all of it.

That's where Paul tells to fight the good fight of faith! It is our faith in Christ that delivers us from these attacks. Our battle is not against flesh and blood on this earth, but from powers of darkness in high places seeking to separate us from our faith.
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Old 07-09-2021, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
Whatever the reason was, it's as irrelevant as talking donkeys and flying scrolls and all the other olde timey stories of the OT.

Luckily, Jesus came along and provided some much-needed normalcy and sanity.
Gnostic type of stories because people soul was too attached to physical body as today in age of materialism.
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