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Or the Received Text added entire words, phrases, paragraphs, even whole passages out of the pages of holy scripture; and therefore those who follow such Bibles as are translated from them are guilty of adding to God's word.
The Septuagint differs from the received text both in word and length and yet it is the Septuagint Jesus and the apostles mostly quoted from. So you are on shaky ground to reject that which Jesus used.
And they mostly used the Septuagint when quoting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justbyfaith
If the Received Text added to the words of holy scripture, then the plagues of the book of Revelation would have been added to the lives of those who penned it and those who translated from it.
While the results of taking away from the word are primarily invisible; consisting of the names of those who wrote and translated such texts being taken out of the Book of Life.
Revelation 22:18-19.
No matter how you don't want to look at it JBF, Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint which is shorter in length and word then the received text, yet you hold that the received text is the unadulterated, infallible word of God. Again you are on shaky ground to reject that which Jesus and the apostles quoted from
There is no justice in wrath, just vengeance which is an entirely HUMAN psychological weakness. It has no place in God. That is why he told us to abandon our desire for vengeance and leave it to Him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike
I don't think that's true, though I guess it depends on how you define "wrath".
Certainly it is right and just for evil to be punished. What if we just defined the act of punishing evil as "wrath"?
It depends on what wrath is being equated to. Scripture actually tells us that wrath is the power of the law. that is why the wrath of God abides on those who do not believe, they are still under the power of the law, still in need of that ministration of death which schools and lead to Christ.
You choose to read it that way because you see God as wrathful and vengeful whereas I see God as agape love as Jesus presented and unambiguously demonstrated Him to be.
I choose to read it that way because it is what is literally rendered by the text.
And it is written in 2 Corinthians 3:12 that the apostles used "great plainness of speech."
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
No matter how you don't want to look at it JBF, Jesus and the apostles quoted from the Septuagint which is shorter in length and word then the received text, yet you hold that the received text is the unadulterated, infallible word of God. Again you are on shaky ground to reject that which Jesus and the apostles quoted from
I know that in listening to a message that is interpreted into Spanish, sometimes a sentence in English, when it is translated into Spanish, may be longer in Spanish because the Spanish language may require more words to be able to relay the same message as what has been said in English.
So, the length of the Septuagint is irrelevant.
What matters is that certain ideas and concepts, as they are related from the Alexandrian text, become completely omitted from the text, as opposed to the same scripture as it is related from the Received Text. And, I believe that the Received Text is correct in keeping in that idea or concept where the Alexandrian text removes it.
1Ti 1:7**Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
1Ti 1:8**But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
1Ti 1:9**Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1Ti 1:10**For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1Ti 1:11**According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.
Law is a necessary thing in society and comes into being when the situations develop that need it
The Scriptures are not about the individual independent of society, it is about relational societal things, and ultimately about the reforming of “man” “Adam”
1Co 15:19**If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
1Co 15:20**But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21**For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22**For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23**But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24**Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25**For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26**The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27**For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28**And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
The law tightens the loop holes...If a law says that you cannot kill a man with a gun, so you use a knife instead, your guiltless of the man’s death because there is no law against using a knife...So, now a law must be passed to include a knife as also being forbidden to kill a man with...Therefore, a catch-all law would be that it is forbidden to kill a man, period...So, what if it’s a woman or a child?...Now the word “man” must be altered to “human being”...Now, we have a law that forbids killing a human being...The law is dynamic because of the human desire to find the loop holes...However, as Mystic says, that if agape love is employed, then there is no need for law...It is like I always say, locks and passwords are for honest people, not thieves...So, law is for agape-less people, not for those with agape...I know of and see way too many Christians that are still under the law and don’t realize it because of their inability or unwillingness to employ agape, so they need a law requiring them to love their neighbor or whatever the case may be...So, the Christian, like the thief, finds a loop hole, and that loop hole is their Jesus and claiming that he fulfilled the law for them and gave his life for those who break the law so that they do not have to suffer the punishment, thereby freeing them from the consequences of breaking the law...The person that employs agape is the one that does not need the law that tells them not to murder, therefore, they are no longer under that law that tells them not to murder and not because someone else received the punishment for their violation of that law not to murder...
Last edited by Richard1965; 07-24-2021 at 03:22 AM..
The law tightens the loop holes...If a law says that you cannot kill a man with a gun, so you use a knife instead, your guiltless of the man’s death because there is no law against using a knife...So, now a law must be passed to include a knife as also being forbidden to kill a man with...Therefore, a catch-all law would be that it is forbidden to kill a man, period...So, what if it’s a woman or a child?...Now the word “man” must be altered to “human being”...Now, we have a law that forbids killing a human being...The law is dynamic because of the human desire to find the loop holes...However, as Mystic says, that if agape love is employed, then there is no need for law...It is like I always say, locks and passwords are for honest people, not thieves...So, law is for agape-less people, not for those with agape...I know of and see way too many Christians that are still under the law and don’t realize it because of their inability or unwillingness to employ agape, so they need a law requiring them to love their neighbor or whatever the case may be...So, the Christian, like the thief, finds a loop hole, and that loop hole is their Jesus and claiming that he fulfilled the law for them and gave his life for those who break the law so that they do not have to suffer the punishment, thereby freeing them from the consequences of breaking the law...The person that employs agape is the one that does not need the law that tells them not to murder, therefore, they are no longer under that law that tells them not to murder and not because someone else received the punishment for their violation of that law not to murder...
Richard, I assume that you have lived a perfect life so that your own words do not condemn you?
Unless you are saying that you are among the ones that you call Christian and who do what you describe above, in bold.
For, if you have not lived a perfect life, will you not be judged according to the law without forgiveness according to what you have said above, if that is not the case?
We do not have a choice as mere humans to maintain some semblance of social order since some humans do respond to punishment as a deterrent to committing secular evil. The threat of it can be useful to human society which makes having it necessary to confirm the threat. God's spiritual order has no such need as the spiritual consequences are self-inflicted.
But that is to forget the power of operant conditioning. Which is, simply, that you get better results using rewards than you do using punishment.
There is a success story of God influencing men's hearts that has brought about today's system, where reward lies at the center, not punishment. I'm talking about how Capitalism functions to reward those who seek what works. It only punishes by holding back.
We get into huge arguments in our various societies over the role government ought to play or not, when people can't seem to find out how to discover what works. Because a rewards based system is best for grown ups, not for large numbers of people still left behind. It implies you have the basics taken care of, and want to refine yourself. You want to improve, not subsist.
I guess that is exactly why God's rewards based system isn't the one we see in operation today. He knows that you cannot mix iron with clay. Those who have not learned yet, in any such system, would have the whole thing corrupted and misused for the purposes of a frightened few in no time at all. We long for God's kingdom on earth. Until then, we know it in our hearts, through the working of the Holy Spirit upon hearing about Jesus.
Anyway, I didn't mean to steal your thunder. I liked what you were saying. I didn't like the way that punishment was being emphasized. Instead of getting locked in an argument that goes down an abyss, of continual definition and redefinition, we could sidestep it, and avoid going down there.
What happens when we apply the law is we die. The law assigns things. It didn't come to make you whole. It actually tears you into pieces, by accusing each small subset of your psyche of being at fault for something that only the whole can truly attend to. You have desires. They ought to exist as emotional constructs within the whole that is who you are. The law says, "No." They must be singled out and put to death. It doesn't always say, "Yes," like Jesus always says, "Yes."
The law isn't about fulfilling your consciousness. Jesus is about fulfilling who you are. Jesus comes and helps us answer the basic question of who we want to be when we grow up, into the kingdom. The bible tells us that some of us will shine like the stars in heaven then, and others will go to shame and everlasting contempt. The whole thing sounds scary. I have enough problems understanding whether I really do have free will sometimes. I appeal to the grace of God, that I might not miss, at the very least, the obvious stuff He is trying to teach me.
The law isn't about you, When it is like that someone powerful had better be on your side. People are fond of talking about the law as if it took precedence over the will of God. I just can't see that. I can see God's order, so that things come together as they should. I trust His wisdom. Sometimes it looks like chaos, but amazingly...
I think you see the same, which was why I wanted to acknowledge you while I stole your thunder, lol.
Last edited by Am I a Prophet; 07-24-2021 at 05:06 AM..
Reason: the writing process
I am making a commitment to read the following scripture passage every morning; for I believe that this "exposure to the law" will bring deliverance:
Mat 5:28, But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
Mat 5:29, And if thy right eye causeth thee to sin, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Mat 5:30, And if thy right hand causeth thee to sin, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
translation:
If you sin / commit adultery with your eye or hand, you will be cast into hell. It would be better for you to lose your eye or hand than for that to happen; so don't sin with your eye or hand.
But that is to forget the power of operant conditioning. Which is, simply, that you get better results using rewards than you do using punishment.
It is the reward consequence that the perpetrator of evil is seeking that needs to be countervailed by a negative consequence. Human society has no easy way to connect the two so it inefficiently applies the punishment retroactively if it catches the perpetrator. I agree that we should try to establish reward structures that encourage the type of behavior society benefits from.
The above is not easy, nor is it something many people would consider. It seems like rewarding existing bad behavior that should be punished. Pollution control is an example. Currently, it is structured on the punish paradigm requiring catching them, gaining access to the evidence through a slew of high-paid lawyers, etc., etc. If we set it up using tax credits for cleanup, they would queue up on their own to allow access to prove their efforts.
Quote:
I think you see the same, which was why I wanted to acknowledge you while I stole your thunder, lol.
NP. Be my guest. I have no need of the thunder, my friend.
Richard, I assume that you have lived a perfect life so that your own words do not condemn you?
Unless you are saying that you are among the ones that you call Christian and who do what you describe above, in bold.
For, if you have not lived a perfect life, will you not be judged according to the law without forgiveness according to what you have said above, if that is not the case?
“ Souls that are imperfect but not irredeemable go through a cleansing purgatory, while truly evil souls are permanently destroyed — at least according to one interpretation. But the afterlife has never really been a focus of Judaism. While such beliefs may provide some hope to people that there is cosmic justice overall, Judaism doesn’t really view these views as helpful with regards to one’s own individual behavior; one’s behavior should not be out of a fear of hell, but because we value doing what is right in and of itself, because of our love for others, for parents, for family, for community, and for God — not because of the afterlife. Although the behavior is more important than the underlying motivation, doing good only in order to avoid hell and not because of an intrinsic desire to do the right thing, to act justly, to create a better society, etc. suggests a bad motivation.” - https://www.bing.com/fd/ls/GLinkPing...WlzLW5vLWhlbGw
And to add to that, Noach, Avraham, Moishe, etc....
And this:
“ Although the behavior is more important than the underlying motivation, doing good only in order to avoid hell and not because of an intrinsic desire to do the right thing, to act justly, to create a better society, etc. suggests a bad motivation”” - I see a most Christians being Christians because of a desire not to go to hell...
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Richard1965 again.
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