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You only call it judgment because you do NOT use the God Jesus revealed. You use the wrathful War God of the Israelites to infer that He is judging and imposing the consequences. The God of Jesus is NOT imposing anything. They are the natural consequences of the kind of Spirit you have become, period. They are NOT punishments or judgments, just consequences. Jesus was just warning them in the only terms they understood.
I don't use the God Jesus revealed? I'm not the one denying His words, that would be you!
Plain as day you deny the judgement and Hell Jesus spoke of.
If you deny Jesus' words, no doubt you will deny His Father's words that speak of the same thing!
The death that Jesus suffered on the Cross was the punishment we deserved.
It is commonly known that the gospel of Jesus Christ is that He died in our place and took the penalty on the Cross for our sins (see also 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
So, if we do not receive His dying in our place, we must die in our own place.
And that means, suffering the penalty that we saw Christ take.
It should be clear that the only reason why He was able to escape the bounds of the grave was because of His Deity.
If it had been us, we would have been dead for ever; with whatever it feels like to be dead.
The next time you start to die you ought to consider this. Maybe hold your breath for 60 seconds and see if you want that experience to continue for ever. Because who is to say that the pain of dying ends when your spirit/soul leaves your body? there are those in Christianity who contend for soul sleep; that would indicate that the spirit/soul does not leave the body; but that you continue to experience whatevr happens to the body after you are dead.
Realizing that it will not do you any good according to your own opinion, I will here answer by quoting the holy scriptures; as an experiment to see whether the word of the Lord actually is "sharper than any two-edged sword" (Hebrews 4:12).
Jde 1:11, Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
Jde 1:12, These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jde 1:13, Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
Jde 1:14, And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jde 1:15, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jde 1:16, These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
For saying hard speeches against the Lord, the Bible calls you an "ungodly sinner" awaiting judgment.
The smoke of this one is going to be exceedingly great! There in no such thing as a Penal Substitution. You are responsible for your own thoughts, deeds, and actions, whether they be good or bad. Removing them may cause you extreme anguish for a period of time. So, you may consider repenting in this life and save yourself some grief?
The smoke of this one is going to be exceedingly great! There in no such thing as a Penal Substitution. You are responsible for your own thoughts, deeds, and actions, whether they be good or bad. Removing them may cause you extreme anguish for a period of time. So, you may consider repenting in this life and save yourself some grief?
There most certainly is such a thing as Penal Substitution. It is the very gospel of Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).
I don't use the God Jesus revealed? I'm not the one denying His words, that would be you!
I use only the words that match the "mind of Christ" because He would not use the words you THINK are from Him because of your refusal to TEST their spirit.
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Plain as day you deny the judgment and Hell Jesus spoke of.
I just deny that it is a judgment IMPOSED by God as punishment. It is just a natural consequence of what you have done in this physical life that Jesus is warning us about. God wants us to avoid the consequences. He is NOT imposing them as punishment.
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If you deny Jesus' words, no doubt you will deny His Father's words that speak of the same thing!
Got some serious problems dude!
Your Moloch-type God would be the way you THINK God is but NOT the God of Jesus. You are the one who will receive a rude awakening, dude!
Adam and Eve knew no evil, they had no idea what sin was. They were perfect and in a perfect atmosphere. If God had not placed the possibility of sin before them in the Tree of Good and Evil, sin would not have entered the world and we would not be in this mess.
When they sinned by disobeying God, everything fell with man. The plant world fell, the animal world fell, even the ground/soil fell. All that was perfect has now fallen into a curse, all because of sin.
God knew this would happen! So why did He allow it to happen? Some say God is unjust and cruel enjoying the suffering of man on this earth. Others say He lost control of His creation. This is stupidity to say the least.
Actually, the only statement you posted in the above quote that I can agree with was that "God knew this would happen." Actually, though, your take on the story is much more commonly believed than mine. The way I see it, God either didn't know it would happen, in which case He's nowhere near as smart as we give Him credit for being or else the existence of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden has another explanation. It's why He placed the tree there that you and I do not agree on, as we both agree that He knew what would happen with it there.
Actually, the scripture doesn't straight out tell us why He placed that Tree in the Garden. After reading the thoughts of many Theologians through the years, I have come to the conclusion that God wanted to show man from the very beginning who he really is in his natural state. Man is self-seeking, a pleaser of himself, clearly seen in his believing the lie of Satan over God.
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It's no secret God wants man to worship Him, but He will not have robots running about. He wants us to love, honor and worship Him of our own free will. The first step of achieving this is to show man who he really is left on his own. Man with this free will must choose what he will do with that free will. He has no choice but to make that choice, his way or God's way.
Personally, I look at this life we live, and a short time it really is compared to eternity, as the period of time God has given us to make that choice. Some have more time than others to make that choice, that is totally in the hands of God.
But make that choice we must, no way around it, ignoring it is the choice to ignore God and choose one's own way through this life. So this leaves us with the question, what is God's way?
His way is the way of life and our way is the way of death, spiritually speaking.
So we have an inevitable choice to make in this life. That choice will determine our final destiny after this life is over on this earth. It is without a doubt the most important decision man will ever make.
See, I believe, first off, that the tree in question was not just "the Tree of Good and Evil" but "the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." God placed it there knowing that Adam and Eve would not only be tempted to eat from it but that they would not be able to withstand the temptation. After all, they were completely innocent before they transgressed, and as you pointed out, they had no idea what sin even was. To me, that raises an interesting question: Why would God condemn someone to an eternity of suffering for doing something they didn't even know was sinful? I don't believe He did. I believe that what we commonly refer to as "the Fall" was actually the beginning of an ascent. God even noted, as Adam and Eve left the Garden, that "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." God knows evil, and Adam and Eve could not progress without also having this knowledge. So, eating from the tree got them one step closer to being like Him. And when I say, "like Him," I mean having all of the attributes that make it possible for one to have a fullness of joy.
We (every one who has ever lived or will yet live) is the spirit offspring of God, our Father in Heaven. We are His children, and we are brothers and sisters to one another. He wants us to learn to love as He loves, and that is why He put us here. Life is nothing more than progress towards an eventual goal, starting with our earliest ability to choose good over evil, love over hate. He wants nothing more than for us to all live as an eternal family someday. Adam and Eve were not villains. They had the courage to do what needed to be done to get the Father's Plan rolling.
Why would God set man up like that? It's ridiculous when you think about it. Like it was some kind of power play. No human parent would do that to a child. They'd do everything they could to love and protect them without having to make them "prove" their love and obedience. It's actually pretty sick. The bible God is a very small God if his ego is so fragile that he has to have somebody worshipping him all the time. Sounds narcissistic to me.
Charlie would, he wants to be in the image of his god...
Actually, the only statement you posted in the above quote that I can agree with was that "God knew this would happen." Actually, though, your take on the story is much more commonly believed than mine. The way I see it, God either didn't know it would happen, in which case He's nowhere near as smart as we give Him credit for being or else the existence of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden has another explanation. It's why He placed the tree there that you and I do not agree on, as we both agree that He knew what would happen with it there.
Actually, the scripture doesn't straight out tell us why He placed that Tree in the Garden. After reading the thoughts of many Theologians through the years, I have come to the conclusion that God wanted to show man from the very beginning who he really is in his natural state. Man is self-seeking, a pleaser of himself, clearly seen in his believing the lie of Satan over God.
See, I believe, first off, that the tree in question was not just "the Tree of Good and Evil" but "the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." God placed it there knowing that Adam and Eve would not only be tempted to eat from it but that they would not be able to withstand the temptation. After all, they were completely innocent before they transgressed, and as you pointed out, they had no idea what sin even was. To me, that raises an interesting question: Why would God condemn someone to an eternity of suffering for doing something they didn't even know was sinful? I don't believe He did. I believe that what we commonly refer to as "the Fall" was actually the beginning of an ascent. God even noted, as Adam and Eve left the Garden, that "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." God knows evil, and Adam and Eve could not progress without also having this knowledge. So, eating from the tree got them one step closer to being like Him. And when I say, "like Him," I mean having all of the attributes that make it possible for one to have a fullness of joy.
We (every one who has ever lived or will yet live) is the spirit offspring of God, our Father in Heaven. We are His children, and we are brothers and sisters to one another. He wants us to learn to love as He loves, and that is why He put us here. Life is nothing more than progress towards an eventual goal, starting with our earliest ability to choose good over evil, love over hate. He wants nothing more than for us to all live as an eternal family someday. Adam and Eve were not villains. They had the courage to do what needed to be done to get the Father's Plan rolling.
Very nice post Katzpur, too soon ....
Edit: it seems to me that we (the children) are all testing each other, from our own scattered positions and perspectives
Actually, the only statement you posted in the above quote that I can agree with was that "God knew this would happen." Actually, though, your take on the story is much more commonly believed than mine. The way I see it, God either didn't know it would happen, in which case He's nowhere near as smart as we give Him credit for being or else the existence of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil in the Garden has another explanation. It's why He placed the tree there that you and I do not agree on, as we both agree that He knew what would happen with it there.
Actually, the scripture doesn't straight out tell us why He placed that Tree in the Garden. After reading the thoughts of many Theologians through the years, I have come to the conclusion that God wanted to show man from the very beginning who he really is in his natural state. Man is self-seeking, a pleaser of himself, clearly seen in his believing the lie of Satan over God.
See, I believe, first off, that the tree in question was not just "the Tree of Good and Evil" but "the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil." God placed it there knowing that Adam and Eve would not only be tempted to eat from it but that they would not be able to withstand the temptation. After all, they were completely innocent before they transgressed, and as you pointed out, they had no idea what sin even was. To me, that raises an interesting question: Why would God condemn someone to an eternity of suffering for doing something they didn't even know was sinful? I don't believe He did. I believe that what we commonly refer to as "the Fall" was actually the beginning of an ascent. God even noted, as Adam and Eve left the Garden, that "the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." God knows evil, and Adam and Eve could not progress without also having this knowledge. So, eating from the tree got them one step closer to being like Him. And when I say, "like Him," I mean having all of the attributes that make it possible for one to have a fullness of joy.
We (every one who has ever lived or will yet live) is the spirit offspring of God, our Father in Heaven. We are His children, and we are brothers and sisters to one another. He wants us to learn to love as He loves, and that is why He put us here. Life is nothing more than progress towards an eventual goal, starting with our earliest ability to choose good over evil, love over hate. He wants nothing more than for us to all live as an eternal family someday. Adam and Eve were not villains. They had the courage to do what needed to be done to get the Father's Plan rolling.
Good grief, how could I possibly discuss this with someone who thinks God didn't know what would happen. We are not even in the same universe!
Good grief, how could I possibly discuss this with someone who thinks God didn't know what would happen. We are not even in the same universe!
You do have a problem with reading comprehension.
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