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Pffft. I'd lay odds that if you inserted stray passages from the Aeneid, Caesar's Gallic Wars, or even the poetry of Catullus into the Latin mass, 98% of the congregation would be none the wiser. What you're really saying is that it doesn't matter if the mass is complete gibberish to those participating, it's only the magical incantation of words that matter.
What you're saying here is that Catholics are stupid. Most Catholics who attend the Latin mass have been going to mass every Sunday and Holy Day (and many attend daily) for their entire lives, or at least for many years if they are converts such as myself. We would notice.
But even so, you're missing the entire point of the mass. It's not for us, it's for God.
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Originally Posted by MinivanDriver
To me, saying, "Oh, hey, we're going to keep doing it the old way because, well, we can" is the definition of lazy.
IF it wasn't for sacred tradition, God would not be near our hearts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Wrong. God needs none of it. It is for us to feel closer to God.
This is how the whole point of worship gets misunderstood. God should be near to your hearts NOT tradition.
Our feelings are fickle, deceptive, and irrelevant. One can "feel" close to God while being far from Him; and vice versa one can "feel" far from God while being close to Him.
Saying it is FOR God certainly implies it. What does God get out of worship?
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Our feelings are fickle, deceptive, and irrelevant. One can "feel" close to God while being far from Him; and vice versa one can "feel" far from God while being close to Him.
I am afraid that you will not be close to God without feeling Him. That is why we are told to be silent and know that He is with us.
Saying it is FOR God certainly implies it. What does God get out of worship?
God does not "get" anything, as God is complete. Since everything already belongs to God, by definition he cannot "get" anything.
We belong to God, we owe him our whole selves, and we are wholly subject to and dependent upon Him. It is right and just for us to acknowledge this fact. That's what formal worship does. The creature (us) must recognize our proper role and place in relation to the Creator.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I am afraid that you will not be close to God without feeling Him. That is why we are told to be silent and know that He is with us.
That may be true, but it's still true that our feelings can and often do deceive us.
God does not "get" anything, as God is complete. Since everything already belongs to God, by definition he cannot "get" anything.
We belong to God, we owe him our whole selves, and we are wholly subject to and dependent upon Him. It is right and just for us to acknowledge this fact. That's what formal worship does. The creature (us) must recognize our proper role and place in relation to the Creator.
If He doesn't need it, why would there be any such obligation. Worship is entirely for us to become closer to God.
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That may be true, but it's still true that our feelings can and often do deceive us.
But we have the revelation and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love as our guide so when we are in those states of mind we know we are NOT being deceived.
The Fraternal Society of St. Pius X has issued a statement that is very encouraging and well worth the read.
An excerpt:
"First of all, we must remember that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the continuation in time of the most bitter struggle that has ever existed: the battle between the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of Satan. This combat culminated at Calvary in the triumph of Our Blessed Lord. It was for this struggle and it was for this victory that he became incarnate. Since Our Lord’s victory was through the Cross and through His Precious Blood, it is understandable that its perpetuation will also be marked by conflicts and contradictions. Every Catholic is called to this combat. Our Lord reminded us of this when He said that He came “to bring the sword upon the earth” (Matt. 10:34). It is not surprising that the Mass, which perfectly expresses Our Lord’s definitive victory over sin through His atoning Sacrifice, is itself a sign of contradiction."
A quick note for non-Catholics and younger Catholics only exposed to the current Mass:
This issue is not a debate on language choices. The older (extraordinary; EF) form of the Mass is not the current (ordinary; OF) Mass being said in Latin instead. The EF mass is radically different in form from the current mass. The differences are very obvious when observing each Mass form and comparing it to the other.
It might be superficial (as in very broadly) to say that the structure is generally the same, because the differences (even the minute/small ones) are sufficient enough to aggregate a wide chasm between both forms.
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