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VATICAN CITY (ChurchMilitant.com) - Pope Francis abrogated Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI's historic decree on the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM) Friday morning, sending seismic shock waves across the Catholic Church.
The new decree, subtitled "On the Use of the Roman Liturgy Prior to the Reform of 1970," severely restricts Summorum Pontificum (SP) — Benedict's 2007 motu proprio which freed priests to celebrate the Tridentine Mass without episcopal encumbrances.
Francis justified his decision in an accompanying letter to bishops, claiming: "In defense of the unity of the Body of Christ, I am constrained to revoke the faculty granted by my predecessors."
"The distorted use that has been made of this faculty is contrary to the intentions that led to granting the freedom to celebrate the Mass with the Missale Romanum [Roman Missal] of 1962," he alleged.
Francis said he was "saddened" that the Latin Mass "is often characterized by a rejection not only of the liturgical reform, but of the Vatican Council II itself, [with many people] claiming, with unfounded and unsustainable assertions, that it betrayed the Tradition and the 'true Church.'"
"At the same time, I am saddened by abuses in the celebration of the Liturgy on all sides," the pontiff observed, lamenting how a false notion of "creativity" while celebrating the new missal "leads to almost unbearable distortions."
Nevertheless, Francis maintains that "the liturgical books promulgated by the saintly pontiffs Paul VI and John Paul II, in conformity with the decrees of Vatican Council II, are the unique expression of the lex orandi of the Roman Rite." ... More at:
The Council of Trent, Benedict XVI, declared the TLM can never be abrogated. Luther though said destroy the mass, destroy the church. The popes during and from Trent until V2 weren't pro-Luther, wouldn't support V2 "reforms", and certainly wouldn't support hip hop, rock music, scantily clad dancers, and clown masses in Novus Ordo and most certainly wouldn't have shown the rigidity Francis has shown to Traditionalists and the TLM, nor be collegial to the NO as he is. But by undermining the authority of Trent, the popes of 1545 to 1563, and the popes all from then until V2 who agreed with Trent, he destroyed his own authority and credibility.
Paul VI on Jan 12, 1966 said that Vatican 2 does not possess notes of infallibility and Benedict XVI said V2 was not a dogmatic council. OTOH, the Council of Trent [TLM] was declared by the popes of 1545 to 1563 and an innumerable host of popes thereafter to be infallible. More concerning V2:
Nostra Aetate of the schismatic, heretical V2 says that Muslims worship the One God, Creator, etc. This is heresy taught in N.A, because the "one God" and the "Creator" is and only is the Most Holy Trinity and the Incarnate God the Son which they refuse to worship but rather and teach and preach against.
The Latin of Nostra Aetate 3 is even more striking, it uses the word "unicum" (unique, only), not just "one" (muslims claim to believe in "one" god only). That, besides "ecclesia *** aestimatione muslimos respicit" is the most heretical part of V2.
Ergo, V2: not infallible, not dogmatic, schismatic, and heretical.
But as the church worships, the church believes, and as the church believes, she lives.
Last edited by Ray Mack; 07-16-2021 at 04:34 PM..
Reason: A spelling error
The Council of Trent, Benedict XVI, declared the TLM can never be abrogated. Luther though said destroy the mass, destroy the church. The popes during and from Trent until V2 weren't pro-Luther, wouldn't support V2 "reforms", and certainly wouldn't support hip hop, rock music, scantily clad dancers, and clown masses in Novus Ordo and most certainly wouldn't have shown the rigidity Francis has shown to Traditionalists and the TLM, nor be collegial to the NO as he is. But by undermining the authority of Trent, the popes of 1545 to 1563, and the popes all from then until V2 who agreed with Trent, he destroyed his own authority and credibility.
Paul VI on Jan 12, 1966 said that Vatican 2 does not possess notes of infallibility and Benedict XVI said V2 was not a dogmatic council. OTOH, the Council of Trent [TLM] was declared by the popes of 1545 to 1563 and an innumerable host of popes thereafter to be infallible. More concerning V2:
Nostra Aetate of the schismatic, heretical V2 says that Muslims worship the One God, Creator, etc. This is heresy taught in N.A, because the "one God" and the "Creator" is and only is the Most Holy Trinity and the Incarnate God the Son which they refuse to worship but rather and teach and preach against.
The Latin of Nostra Aetate 3 is even more striking, it uses the word "unicum" (unique, only), not just "one" (muslims claim to believe in "one" god only). That, besides "ecclesia *** aestimatione muslimos respicit" is the most heretical part of V2.
Ergo, V2: not infallible, not dogmatic, schismatic, and heretical.
But as the church worships, the church believes, and as the church believes, she lives.
Nothing more clearly illustrates the absolute absurdity of investing infallibility in ANY human being!!!! It is totally preposterous human hubris!!! All this angst over human beliefs about God makes no sense whatsoever! God is God and we flawed and fallible humans have no infallible way to validate our beliefs about Him.
That is why Christians who truly believe Jesus operate on faith in His Holy Spirit of agape love and what resonates with our hearts under the guidance of the Comforter, NOT the theological opinions of men.
Nothing more clearly illustrates the absolute absurdity of investing infallibility in ANY human being!!!! It is totally preposterous human hubris!!! All this angst over human beliefs about God makes no sense whatsoever! God is God and we flawed and fallible humans have no infallible way to validate our beliefs about Him.
That is why Christians who truly believe Jesus operate on faith in His Holy Spirit of agape love and what resonates with our hearts under the guidance of the Comforter, NOT the theological opinions of men.
So toss out all of the scriptures dealing with family interactions, women, men, wife/husband relations, how church services are to operate, who qualifies as deacons, bishops and who doesn't?
So toss out what is said in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21?
Etc, etc?
If someone says don't do that then you'll inevitably get person 1 saying "Here, here, and here the scriptures say to do x, y, and z and 1, 2, and 3."
Another one will say "No, we are to a, b, and c, and 4, 5, and 6."
Enough time goes by and you have 40k denominations.
Then someone will inevitably say "They need to let the Holy Spirit guide them in how to live, behave, follow God, interpret scriptures, etc, etc."
And in unison the 40k denominations say "We are!".
So then we have the Holy Spirit saying 40k different things?
Today is a very sad day in the Church. We should all be doing penance and praying fervently on today, the Feast of Our Lady of Mt Carmel.
While this topic is a bit "inside baseball" for this forum as there are very few Catholics here, I thought Peter Kwasniewski provided some excellent analysis here:
Nothing more clearly illustrates the absolute absurdity of investing infallibility in ANY human being!!!! It is totally preposterous human hubris!!! All this angst over human beliefs about God makes no sense whatsoever! God is God and we flawed and fallible humans have no infallible way to validate our beliefs about Him.
That is why Christians who truly believe Jesus operate on faith in His Holy Spirit of agape love and what resonates with our hearts under the guidance of the Comforter, NOT the theological opinions of men.
We don't rely on the "theological opinions of men". The teachings and Tradition of the Church come from God, though God uses human instruments to preserve and carry them out. The Pope is just as much subject to and constrained by Tradition as anyone. If a Pope decides to buck against Tradition, then he will be held accountable; if not in this life, then in the next.
The doctrine of Papal Infallibility actually limits the Pope and what he can do.
So toss out all of the scriptures dealing with family interactions, women, men, wife/husband relations, how church services are to operate, who qualifies as deacons, bishops and who doesn't?
So toss out what is said in 1 Cor. 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21?
Etc, etc?
If someone says don't do that then you'll inevitably get person 1 saying "Here, here, and here the scriptures say to do x, y, and z and 1, 2, and 3."
Another one will say "No, we are to a, b, and c, and 4, 5, and 6."
Enough time goes by and you have 40k denominations.
Then someone will inevitably say "They need to let the Holy Spirit guide them in how to live, behave, follow God, interpret scriptures, etc, etc."
And in unison the 40k denominations say "We are!".
So then we have the Holy Spirit saying 40k different things?
Only if the Holy Spirit is NOT understood as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus. There is nothing ambiguous about the states of mind that should guide our understanding and interpretation. We must be in one or more of the following states of mind to be guided by the Holy Spirit. There is no room for 40k interpretations of whether or not you are in one or more of them. Anything that you read or is claimed to be from God or Jesus MUST be compatible with the Holy Spirit described below, period!
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
Only if the Holy Spirit is NOT understood as revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus. There is nothing ambiguous about the states of mind that should guide our understanding and interpretation. We must be in one or more of the following states of mind to be guided by the Holy Spirit. There is no room for 40k interpretations of whether or not you are in one or more of them. Anything that you read or is claimed to be from God or Jesus MUST be compatible with the Holy Spirit described below, period!
The Holy Spirit IS the True Nature of God revealed, described, and demonstrated unambiguously by Jesus. He IS agape love, kindness, mercy, compassion, gentleness, unconditional acceptance, empathy, sympathy, tolerance, long-suffering, decency, friendliness, peacefulness, joyfulness, understanding, care, concern, solicitude, solicitousness, sensitivity, tender-heartedness, soft-heartedness, warm-heartedness, warmth, love, brotherly love, tenderness, gentleness, mercifulness, leniency, lenience, consideration, kindness, humanity, humaneness, kind-heartedness, charity, benevolence, and He is non-judgmental.
Wow, great, you say that we have to the right state of mind, have to be guided by the Holy Spirit, yet 40k denominations say they are, you can say you are too, and yet 40k disagreements still over interpretation of scriptures and thus 40k denominations.
You might say it's obvious then they don't have the right state of mind, don't have the Spirit within, aren't being guided, etc, but they can say the same about you.
Wow, great, you say that we have to the right state of mind, have to be guided by the Holy Spirit, yet 40k denominations say they are, you can say you are too, and yet 40k disagreements still over interpretation of scriptures and thus 40k denominations.
You might say it's obvious then they don't have the right state of mind, don't have the Spirit within, aren't being guided, etc, but they can say the same about you.
Are you saying that those states of mind are somehow ambiguous enough that one can be in one of those states of mind and still accept interpretations that are NOT compatible? I suppose it is possible. We humans are quite perverse, but I doubt that 40k such misinterpretations would be possible.
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