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Do you think that you can possibly let him answer for himself?
I think Mystic summed it up pretty good, exactly what I was trying to get across. God knew all along the cross was ahead for His Son, doesn't mean He did it, evil men did the deed.
Those who have not received forgiveness through the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the Cross shall surely go to hell for all of eternity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bungalove
That's your belief and you're entitled to it. That doesn't make it fact however.
In actuality it is not so much a belief but the result of religious brainwashing where an idea - often an evil idea - becomes indelibly implanted into the mind of the recipient. The notion that an actual place exists where people will be subjected to torment for all eternity IS EVIL ...no ifs, ands or buts. This idea does not come from a sacred source but more likely from the very satanic source that these people warn the rest of us about.
The weak-minded are especially susceptible to religious mind control, although even strong minds can be swayed by brainwashing but usually to a lesser extent. As we see here on this forum, religious brainwashing greatly reduces a subject's ability to think critically or independently and even attempting to discuss the thread topic with them is pretty much futile.
I think Mystic summed it up pretty good, exactly what I was trying to get across. God knew all along the cross was ahead for His Son, doesn't mean He did it, evil men did the deed.
So then are you saying that you don't believe Peter in Acts 2:23 when he said that Jesus was delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God to godless men who nailed him to a cross?
Despite the fact that Jesus being put on the cross was the predetermined plan of God you deny that it was by the Father's will that Jesus was crucified?
And even though Jesus himself said that it was the Father's will for Jesus to go to the cross in Matthew 26:39,41 you won't accept that it was the Father's plan for Jesus to be delivered over to godless men so that he would be crucified?
And are you denying that despite being stated in Isaiah 53:10 that the LORD was pleased to crush Him (Jesus), putting him to grief, if he would render himself as a guilt offering that God the Father's plan was for Jesus to die on that cross?
Last edited by Michael Way; 07-23-2021 at 11:11 AM..
So then are you saying that you don't believe Peter in Acts 2:23 when he said that Jesus was delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God to godless men who nailed him to a cross?
Despite the fact that Jesus being put on the cross was the predetermined plan of God you deny that it was by the Father's will that Jesus was crucified?
And even though Jesus himself said that it was the Father's will for Jesus to go to the cross in Matthew 26:39,41 you won't accept that it was the Father's plan for Jesus to be delivered over to godless men so that he would be crucified?
Answering for him again, Michael, there is no question that our ancestors believed that it was the predetermined plan of God because they believed EVERYTHING that happened was the predetermined plan of God. That was their dominant mindset at the time. We know better now and can use the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit by Jesus to reinterpret what actually happened.
Answering for him again, Michael, there is no question that our ancestors believed that it was the predetermined plan of God because they believed EVERYTHING that happened was the predetermined plan of God. That was their dominant mindset at the time. We know better now and can use the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit by Jesus to reinterpret what actually happened.
No, we don't know better now. Your arrogance knows no bounds.
So then are you saying that you don't believe Peter in Acts 2:23 when he said that Jesus was delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God to godless men who nailed him to a cross?
Despite the fact that Jesus being put on the cross was the predetermined plan of God you deny that it was by the Father's will that Jesus was crucified?
And even though Jesus himself said that it was the Father's will for Jesus to go to the cross in Matthew 26:39,41 you won't accept that it was the Father's plan for Jesus to be delivered over to godless men so that he would be crucified?
And are you denying that despite being stated in Isaiah 53:10 that the LORD was pleased to crush Him (Jesus), putting him to grief, if he would render himself as a guilt offering that God the Father's plan was for Jesus to die on that cross?
What makes you think it was his predetermined plan, and not merely what they believed?
What makes you think it was his predetermined plan, and not merely what they believed?
Who was the person who made that statement? It was the apostle Peter. To whom did Jesus say in John 16:12-15 that the Holy Spirit would guide them unto all the truth. He said it to the apostles. Do you seriously think that Jesus didn't reveal this to them at least after his resurrection?
And how is it that people like you and MysticPhD presume to know more about Jesus than the apostles who were with him for three years or so?
Jesus went to the cross by the predetermined will of God as Peter said. And as I noted before, Jesus understood that it was the Father's will for him to go to the cross. He said so in his prayer to the Father in Matthew 26:39,41.
Who was the person who made that statement? It was the apostle Peter. To whom did Jesus say in John 16:12-15 that the Holy Spirit would guide them unto all the truth. He said it to the apostles. Do you seriously think that Jesus didn't reveal this to them at least after his resurrection?
And how is it that people like you and MysticPhD presume to know more about Jesus than the apostles who were with him for three years or so?
Jesus went to the cross by the predetermined will of God as Peter said. And as I noted before, Jesus understood that it was the Father's will for him to go to the cross. He said so in his prayer to the Father in Matthew 26:39,41.
I believe the Scriptures express the inevitable events that would take place. So, does his foreknowledge allow for knowing what would happen - before it happens?
I believe the Scriptures express the inevitable events that would take place. So, does his foreknowledge allow for knowing what would happen - before it happens?
Just what is it you think foreknowledge means? It's knowledge before hand of future events.
Foreknowledge
In his omniscience God knows what the future holds both for individuals and for nations. He knows and sees everything in advance and his will is carried out in accord with his plans and purposes. In the Old Testament God's foreknowledge is usually represented by the verb yada [[;d"y], which is the normal verb for "know." In the New Testament the main verbs are proginosko [proginwvskw], "to know in advance, " and proorao, "to see what is ahead." Foreknowledge is closely connected to election and predestination and to God's sovereign rule of his universe.
I believe the Scriptures express the inevitable events that would take place. So, does his foreknowledge allow for knowing what would happen - before it happens?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
Just what is it you think foreknowledge means? It's knowledge before hand of future events.
Foreknowledge
In his omniscience God knows what the future holds both for individuals and for nations. He knows and sees everything in advance and his will is carried out in accord with his plans and purposes. In the Old Testament God's foreknowledge is usually represented by the verb yada [[;d"y], which is the normal verb for "know." In the New Testament the main verbs are proginosko [proginwvskw], "to know in advance, " and proorao, "to see what is ahead." Foreknowledge is closely connected to election and predestination and to God's sovereign rule of his universe.
So, he is able to predetermine what will happen based on his foreknowledge of the events, including the resurrection, after he was turned over by ungodly men?
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there is no question that our ancestors believed that it was the predetermined plan of God because they believed EVERYTHING that happened was the predetermined plan of God. That was their dominant mindset at the time. We know better now and can use the unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit by Jesus to reinterpret what actually happened.
