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Old 07-16-2021, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Arizona
28,956 posts, read 16,376,582 times
Reputation: 2296

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I was handed a tract a few moments ago at my front door, it said:


FIRST, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE A SINNER.

SECOND, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT AS A SINNER YOU OWE A PENALTY.

THIRD, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS ALREADY PAID YOUR SIN DEBT.

FOURTH, YOU MUST ACCEPT BY FAITH WHAT JESUS CHRIST DID FOR YOU.


In other words, YOU MUST ACCEPT whatever you are told!
Any thoughts on the idea that YOU MUST ACCEPT this or that?

(The man had his two daughters with him who were around 6-8 years of age).
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:14 PM
 
Location: the Kingdom of His dear Son
7,530 posts, read 3,032,424 times
Reputation: 275
"There is nothing small about our God, and when we understand God we will find out that there ought not to be anything small about us. We must have an enlargement of our conception of God, then we will know that we have come to a place where all things are possible, for our God is an omnipotent God for impossible positions." ~Smith Wigglesworth

My brother: broken men have a you must do list. My list as an extremely broken rascal can be summed up in two words of our Lord.

Follow Me
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:19 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,266 posts, read 26,477,412 times
Reputation: 16380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I was handed a tract a few moments ago at my front door, it said:


FIRST, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE A SINNER.

SECOND, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT AS A SINNER YOU OWE A PENALTY.

THIRD, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS ALREADY PAID YOUR SIN DEBT.

FOURTH, YOU MUST ACCEPT BY FAITH WHAT JESUS CHRIST DID FOR YOU.


In other words, YOU MUST ACCEPT whatever you are told!
Any thoughts on the idea that YOU MUST ACCEPT this or that?

(The man had his two daughters with him who were around 6-8 years of age).
It is the biblical teaching that to have eternal life you must believe in Christ Jesus. That is, you must believe that Jesus died for your sins.

The first through third statements simply reflect the fact that if you don't know that you are in need of salvation you aren't going to place your trust in Jesus for salvation.

Now I understand that you don't believe that. I'm simply saying that this is what the Bible teaches and what mainstream Christianity believes.

And by the way, the believer does go to heaven when he dies despite the naysayers to the contrary (they know who they are).
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:33 PM
 
9,345 posts, read 4,330,906 times
Reputation: 3023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
It is the biblical teaching that to have eternal life you must believe in Christ Jesus. That is, you must believe that Jesus died for your sins.

The first through third statements simply reflect the fact that if you don't know that you are in need of salvation you aren't going to place your trust in Jesus for salvation.

Now I understand that you don't believe that. I'm simply saying that this is what the Bible teaches and what mainstream Christianity believes.

And by the way, the believer does go to heaven when he dies despite the naysayers to the contrary (they know who they are).
In essence than Heaven is only for Christains or those who believe what Christianity teaches? There is no afterlife reward for a non Christian who doesn't accept Jesus died for his or her sins so being good in this life has no benefit to the afterlife for the non Christian?I

I'm guessing the corollary is also true, if you don't believe in Jesus you don't have to agree that are a sinner? If a Christain then claims we are all sinners is he then saying that we are all Christian?
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:47 PM
 
3,377 posts, read 1,974,527 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
In essence than Heaven is only for Christains or those who believe what Christianity teaches? There is no afterlife reward for a non Christian who doesn't accept Jesus died for his or her sins so being good in this life has no benefit to the afterlife for the non Christian?I

I'm guessing the corollary is also true, if you don't believe in Jesus you don't have to agree that are a sinner? If a Christain then claims we are all sinners is he then saying that we are all Christian?
I was raised Catholic and this is the part of the teaching that I had a very difficult time dealing with. Asking priests in my family to explain it did absolutely no good and I wouldn't dare ask any nuns.

My best childhood friend was Jewish and I just couldn't accept that she and her family would not be able to go to heaven. They were good, kind people whose recent ancestors had suffered horribly on earth and were then going to spend eternity in hell? I couldn't accept that.
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:51 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,178,732 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I was handed a tract a few moments ago at my front door, it said:


FIRST, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE A SINNER.

SECOND, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT AS A SINNER YOU OWE A PENALTY.

THIRD, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS ALREADY PAID YOUR SIN DEBT.

FOURTH, YOU MUST ACCEPT BY FAITH WHAT JESUS CHRIST DID FOR YOU.


In other words, YOU MUST ACCEPT whatever you are told!
Any thoughts on the idea that YOU MUST ACCEPT this or that?

(The man had his two daughters with him who were around 6-8 years of age).
truncated St. Paul...
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Old 07-16-2021, 07:55 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,266 posts, read 26,477,412 times
Reputation: 16380
Quote:
Originally Posted by badlander View Post
In essence than Heaven is only for Christains or those who believe what Christianity teaches? There is no afterlife reward for a non Christian who doesn't accept Jesus died for his or her sins so being good in this life has no benefit to the afterlife for the non Christian?I

I'm guessing the corollary is also true, if you don't believe in Jesus you don't have to agree that are a sinner? If a Christain then claims we are all sinners is he then saying that we are all Christian?
If Jesus existed, and if he was resurrected, then he is who he said he is and what he taught is true. The Bible teaches that everyone will live forever, but the determining factor in where a person spends the eternal future, in the presence of God or separated from God at least in a spiritual sense is whether or not a person personally places his trust in Jesus for eternal life. Eternal life simply means life in the presence of God as opposed to spending the eternal future separated from God.

Biblical scholars and historians recognize that the disciples of Jesus believed that they saw the risen Jesus. None of the naturalistic explanations such as hallucinations, the swoon theory, Jesus had an identical twin who showed up after Jesus had died and was mistaken for Jesus theory, etc., have the explanatory scope and power to explain why the disciples believed they saw the resurrected Jesus. I am convinced that they actually did see Jesus after he was raised from the dead.

And no. A Christian saying that we are all sinners is not saying that we are all Christians. A Christian is a person who has trusted in Jesus for eternal salvation.
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:03 PM
 
Location: California USA
1,714 posts, read 1,150,568 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade View Post
I was handed a tract a few moments ago at my front door, it said:


FIRST, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE A SINNER.

SECOND, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT AS A SINNER YOU OWE A PENALTY.

THIRD, YOU MUST ACCEPT THAT JESUS CHRIST HAS ALREADY PAID YOUR SIN DEBT.

FOURTH, YOU MUST ACCEPT BY FAITH WHAT JESUS CHRIST DID FOR YOU.


In other words, YOU MUST ACCEPT whatever you are told!
Any thoughts on the idea that YOU MUST ACCEPT this or that?

(The man had his two daughters with him who were around 6-8 years of age).
In the Bible we find that we can choose to accept God or not.
Joshua 24:15, Matthew 11:28
Once we choose to accept God then we follow through with our acceptance.
On the other hand, no genuine disciple of Christ and worshipper of God is made through force.
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:12 PM
 
Location: California USA
1,714 posts, read 1,150,568 times
Reputation: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way View Post
<snip>

And by the way, the believer does go to heaven when he dies despite the naysayers to the contrary (they know who they are).
Yes naysayers including the majority of Bible scholars who recognize that what the Bible teaches is far different than what many Christians have been led to believe. But I guess they're wrong and so are millions of other Christians who accept what Jesus, the apostles and early Christians believed... some go to heaven but the majority are resurrected to earth.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...TUU_story.html
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Old 07-16-2021, 08:25 PM
 
63,840 posts, read 40,128,566 times
Reputation: 7881
Default How to know you're going to Heaven?

The short answer is that we are already there since there is nowhere else for our consciousness (Spirit) to reside. Our death simply disconnects our Spirit from our body. I realize that most people do not and will not understand this, but it is quite true. What we consider death is actually a severing of our umbilical connection to this physical "womb" to be "born again" as Spirit.

Heaven (what we consider outer Space) has two possible locations: 1.) within the dark energy that is expanding our space or 2.) the dark matter holding together the lake of fire that is our galaxy. The state of our Spirit's character will determine where we will be once "born" as Spirit and for how long.

Have a nice day!
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