Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What Is God's Wrath?
God's wrath is His reaction to sin and uncleanness.
The issue is not whether God has wrath.
The issue is to understand why the wrath is there side by side with His character of love.
No the issue is how to reconcile the human state of mind of wrath attributed to God by our ancestors with the actual state of mind of God as revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ. They are NOT compatible. Why our human ancestors attributed wrath to God is no mystery. They attributed absolutely everything to God, including whatever they did or felt. Their only explanation for negative consequences in their carnal minds was God's wrath.
Every person and even every nation on the earth will be judged ...... Like many unbelievers would say America is not a Christian nation, but to God America is in covenant with the Lord, but if America were to betray the covenant Then like a Judas Iscariot then America would have the wrath of God come down on the nation ...... As there are countless groups of people who God has lifted His protection from them were the devil has his way throughout some nations in the world are in a cycle of death on their nation, as war is not ending soon for some ...... See Jesus Christ has the government of the earth on His shoulders, as whether people get liberty or wickedness would depend on their ways
Context does matter in the interpetation of scripture. Wrath and judgment in the scriptures just refer to the negative spiritual consequences that we all face based on what we become. In order to consider God wrathful and vengeful we would need to ignore the context that controlled our ancient ancestors' recorded interpretations of any inspirations from God. To our ancient ancestors, God is the cause of everything that ever happens, including their own decisions and actions. They saw God as wrathful and vengeful and needing to be appeased by blood sacrifices. That context cannot be ignored when reading how they wrote things.
.
all one has to do is read the book of Job to see this, both Job and his friends blamed God for everything that happened to Job.
Quote:
Our carnal-minded ancestors considered all negative consequences as the result of God's wrath and judgment, even if it was what they did, period. They did not lie about it. They just could not see it any other way. They did not know any better. To them, God had all the same emotions as we do, hate, anger, desire for vengeance, justice, etc. Therefore, when explaining the existence of any negative spiritual consequences they received as inspirations they would automatically be interpreted as judgments and punishments imposed by God.
this is one of the reason Jesus had to come, He had to show them God was not like the other Gods whom you had to fear or else, but a loving Father who we should reverence.
Quote:
This inherent bias and misunderstanding is the result of the very primitive interpretation of the early experiences in the fables as the actions of God who is wrathful and vengeful. They interpreted what happened as God punishing us for disobedience instead of preparing and training our animal ancestors to become spiritual adults. It is that misunderstanding of God born of the early experiences described in the fables of the Bible and during the Mosaic schoolmaster stage of obedience training using fear of God that caused the failure of the Old covenant that had to be corrected.
Many still read the OT with this mind set brother, you also read the OT it as they do, but you reject the wrath and judgment of God spoken of in the OT, while they hold to them. However the wrath and judgments of God spoken of in the OT have a purpose and only in Christ can we understand their purpose. For myself I reject their understand of the wrath/judgments of God but I do not reject the wrath/judgments of God. But then again I do seem to have a different understanding on what the wrath/judgments are all about.
Quote:
God was NEVER angry or punishing for ANY reason. Everything was for our training. God wants us to succeed NOT please Him by obedience. Our entire history and evolution have been toward attaining spiritual maturity in an animal species in a physical world which is neither easy nor natural. That is one of the reasons why Jesus was sent, NOT to pay for some ill-described "sins of mankind" or whatever.
Quote:
God is not and NEVER was either wrathful or vengeful!!! There was no "Fall of man" or original sin. Eden was our first lesson in discriminating between good and evil. We would not need to deny anything in the scriptures if we simply recognized that they were written using this primitive and incorrect understanding of God. We can keep every single verse but we would need to reinterpret what they actually must have been trying to communicate from their warped perspective of God as wrathful and vengeful.
agree for the most part, but either you are not being clear or I am misunderstanding you.
Are you saying there is no wrath/judgments of God or are you saying they just misunderstood the wrath/judgments of God? if the latter we are in agreement.
Quote:
You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.
While I would say look and see what the wrath/judgments of God are and their purpose because if one does not look into these things how can one understand them?
Quote:
This misconception of God as a Godfather instead of our Father Abba, as Jesus presented Him, is why our carnal ancestors did not understand the spiritual significance and importance of Jesus. Jesus represented God in human form so enduring what He did with NO WRATH or vengeance whatsoever, just agape love and forgiveness, was supposed to correct our ancestors' misconception of God. But to our ancestors' carnal minds what was being done to Jesus had to have been ordered by God for some reason.
very close to what I see except where you speak of the wrath of God. If the law is the wrath of God as I believe it is Jesus not only spoke on, the wrath of God was upon him (he came under the law, which is a ministration of death) and he fulfilled it. (overcame it as death, the law, could not hold Him.)
Quote:
The problem is their overall context of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices completely skewed their interpretation away from the God revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ!! They invented their own "carnal milk" reasons and rationalized them using their tradition and history of blood sacrifices to appease God. We continue the process to this day, completely ignoring the "spiritual solid food" evidence in the clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus. If there were a Satan, he would be pleased. Corrupting that central message of God's True Nature and Holy Spirit of agape love has been the most effective false teaching imaginable. It has certainly proved to be so for millennia
No the issue is how to reconcile the human state of mind of wrath attributed to God by our ancestors with the actual state of mind of God as revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ. They are NOT compatible. Why our human ancestors attributed wrath to God is no mystery. They attributed absolutely everything to God, including whatever they did or felt. Their only explanation for negative consequences in their carnal minds was God's wrath.
that they did this I have no doubt but that does not do away with the wrath of God, it just means they did not understand its purpose. When you reject the wrath of God mystic you reject the purpose of that wrath.
all one has to do is read the book of Job to see this, both Job and his friends blamed God for everything that happened to Job.
this is one of the reason Jesus had to come, He had to show them God was not like the other Gods whom you had to fear or else, but a loving Father who we should reverence.
Many still read the OT with this mind set brother, you also read the OT it as they do, but you reject the wrath and judgment of God spoken of in the OT, while they hold to them. However the wrath and judgments of God spoken of in the OT have a purpose and only in Christ can we understand their purpose. For myself I reject their understand of the wrath/judgments of God but I do not reject the wrath/judgments of God. But then again I do seem to have a different understanding on what the wrath/judgments are all about.
agree for the most part, but either you are not being clear or I am misunderstanding you.
Are you saying there is no wrath/judgments of God or are you saying they just misunderstood the wrath/judgments of God? if the latter we are in agreement.
While I would say look and see what the wrath/judgments of God are and their purpose because if one does not look into these things how can one understand them?
very close to what I see except where you speak of the wrath of God. If the law is the wrath of God as I believe it is Jesus not only spoke on, the wrath of God was upon him (he came under the law, which is a ministration of death) and he fulfilled it. (overcame it as death, the law, could not hold Him.)
again we are very close
What I detect in your reluctance is a desire to retain the negative consequences as evidence of God's wrath, pneuma, but anger is a human weakness and God simply does NOT get angry. He will chastise and correct in the next life but there is no anger in it as there is with us humans.
agreed, the wrath of God is the law. If one is under the law then one is under the wrath of God, they stand condemned already.
Not exactly... the wrath God God stems from a lack of faith in the person of God. There was no law when Adam sinned... or Noah... or Abraham... until Moses.
Not exactly... the wrath God God stems from a lack of faith in the person of God. There was no law when Adam sinned... or Noah... or Abraham... until Moses.
I believe there is a need to understand (and differentiate) the levels and timing that have been given in Holy Scripture
Adam and Christ are the ones that are at the same level with each other
1Co 15:22**For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23**But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24**Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25**For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26**The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
1Co 15:27**For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.
1Co 15:28**And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
G5001***(Strong)
τάγμα
tagma
tag'-mah
From G5021; something orderly in arrangement (a troop), that is, (figuratively) a series or succession: - order.
And in Ephesians (or to the Ephesians) the fight is not personal (flesh and blood) but against the systems (principalities, powers, rulers) that are built up
Eph 6:10**Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11**Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12**For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13**Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 6:14**Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph 6:15**And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph 6:16**Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph 6:17**And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph 6:18**Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Eph 6:19**And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Eph 6:20**For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
The next step down is Cain/Abel - brothers, and murder results from envy about the “sacrifice”
Noah is 7th from Adam
Abraham (father of many nations) and down, and across, getting more diverse
What I detect in your reluctance is a desire to retain the negative consequences as evidence of God's wrath, pneuma, but anger is a human weakness and God simply does NOT get angry. He will chastise and correct in the next life but there is no anger in it as there is with us humans.
No brother the law is spiritual and we are carnal the law is not negative in any respect for even those under the law, which is a ministration of death to our old man, which death schools us and lead us to Christ. Thus the negative consequences (if you can really call it that) you see only comes upon the old man.
Not exactly... the wrath God God stems from a lack of faith in the person of God. There was no law when Adam sinned... or Noah... or Abraham... until Moses.
sure there was the tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
