What Is God's Wrath? (Baptist, cross, saved, perfect)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Because I do not fear my loving Father, but serve him out of reverence/awe of His love for me.
So question back at you mike.
Why do you fear your loving Father??

It has been the dominant emotion toward God because it took the fear of God a long time to break through our primal savagery and teach us self-control during our species' spiritual childhood. It is an unavoidable misunderstanding in the immature during the process of instilling self-control over things our animal nature selfishly wants to do. Our own immature children misinterpret our own discipline efforts for that reason as well.

[Charlie24]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Oh for Pete sake, you do see the words reverence, respect in strong's definition do you not?

Now here is the break down of how it is used.

STRONGS NT 5401: φόβος
φόβος, φοβοῦ, ὁ (φέβομαι; like φόρος, τρόμος, πόνος, from φέρω, τρέμω, πένομαι), from Homer down, the Sept. for יִרְאָה, פַּחַד, אֵימָה (terror), חִתִּית (terror);
1. fear, dread, terror; in a subjective sense (οὐδέν ἐστι φόβος εἰ μή προδοσία τῶν ἀπό λογισμοῦ βοηθημάτων, Wis. 17:11; προσδοκίαν λέγω κακοῦ τοῦτο, εἴτε φόβον, εἴτε δέος καλεῖτε, Plato, Protag., p. 358 d.): universally, 1 John 4:18; φόβος ἐπί τινα πίπτει (Acts 19:17 L Tr); Revelation 11:11 Rec.; ἐπιπίπτει, Luke 1:12; Acts 19:17 (R G T WH; Revelation 11:11 L T Tr WH); ἐγένετο, Luke 1:65; Acts 5:5, 11; λαμβάνει τινα, Luke 7:16 (Homer Iliad 11, 402); γίνεται τίνι, Acts 2:43; πλησθῆναι φοβοῦ, Luke 5:26; συνέχεσθαι φόβῳ, Luke 8:37; ἔχειν φόβον, 1 Timothy 5:20 (Herodotus 8, 12); κατεργάζεσθαι; τίνι φόβον, 2 Corinthians 7:11; φοβεῖσθαι φόβον (see φοβέω, 2), Mark 9:41; Luke 2:9; with a genitive of the object added, 1 Peter 3:14 (so Winer's Grammar, § 32, 2; others subject. genitive); ἀπό φοβοῦ, for fear, Luke 21:26; ἀπό τοῦ φοβοῦ, for the fear, with which they were struck, Matthew 14:26; with a genitive of the object added, Matthew 28:4; εἰς φόβον, unto (that ye may) fear, Romans 8:15; μετά φοβοῦ, Matthew 28:8; with καί τρόμου added, 2 Corinthians 7:15; Ephesians 6:5; Philippians 2:12; ἐν φόβῳ καί ἐν τρόμῳ (see τρόμος), 1 Corinthians 2:3; τινα ἐν φόβῳ σῴζειν (Rec.), ἐλεαν (L T Tr WH), with anxious heed lest ye be defiled by the wickedness of those whom ye are rescuing, Jude 1:23; plural φόβοι, feelings of fear, fears (Winer's Grammar, 176 (166)), 2 Corinthians 7:5; φόβος τίνος, genitive of the object (our fear of one): τῶν Ἰουδαίων, John 7:13; John 19:38; John 20:19; βασανισμοῦ, Revelation 18:10, 15; θανάτου, Hebrews 2:15 (Xenophon, mem. l, 4, 7). In an objective sense, that which strikes terror: φόβος ἀγαθῶν ἔργων, or more correctly (with L T Tr WH) τῷ ἀγαθῷ ἔργῳ, a terror to (or for), Romans 13:3.



2. reverence, respect (for authority, rank, dignity): Romans 13:7; 1 Peter 2:18; 1 Peter 3:16 (15); ἡ ἐν φόβῳ ἀναστροφή, behavior coupled with (cf. ἐν, I. 5 e.) reverence for one's husband, 1 Peter 3:2; φόβος with a genitive of the object: τοῦ κυρίου, Acts 9:31; 2 Corinthians 5:11; Χριστοῦ, Ephesians 5:21 (not Rec.); Θεοῦ, Romans 3:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1; (Ephesians 5:21 Rec.); Θεοῦ is omitted as suggested by the context, 1 Peter 1:17; (often in the O. T. יְהוָה יִרְאַת and אֱלֹהִים יִרְאַת). (Synonyms: see δειλία, δέος, at the end; cf. φοβέω.)


Now does 2 Co.5:11 fall under fear or reverence?

Also see my last post to mike.

The fear of the Lord doesn't exist in your world does it, pneuma?

When Jesus said "not to fear the one who can kill the body but not the soul, but I say, fear Him that can destroy both body and soul in hell," what kind of fear is that?

Is that your lovy dovy respect thing?

[Charlie24]

Originally Posted by Charlie24

The fear of the Lord doesn't exist in your world does it, pneuma?

When Jesus said "not to fear the one who can kill the body but not the soul, but I say, fear Him that can destroy both body and soul in hell," what kind of fear is that?

Is that your lovy dovy respect thing?

You pneuma, are in much worse shape that Mystic! I sincerely believe there is hope for him!

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Did your earthly father punish you in order to correct you?

Mike do you believe God is love?

And if so did you know that there is no fear in love?

Did you know that perfect love (which would be the love of God) casteth out fear?

Did you know those who fear are those who are in torment?

Did you know that if you feareth you have not been made perfect in Love?

My brother only those who fear God teach of an eternally tormenting God, open wide thy arms to the overpowering love of God and it will cast aside all fear and torment and the teaching of such.


1JN.4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Originally Posted by EscAlaMike

Yes



Yes



Yes, this is true. Unfortunately, I am lacking in perfect love, and I do not yet obey God perfectly; so my fear for Him is justified. Since I have not yet entered the gates of heaven, hell is still a distinct possibility for me.

It is not YOUR perfect love that casteth out fer mike it is Gods.

Yes. I believe that very few are made perfect in Love in this life, though it is possible. Most of us are either never made perfect in love (ending up in hell) or require the fires of purgatory to purify us.

As long as you fear God you will never be made perfect in love and that is the point and it is not your doing anyway mike it is all of God. It is Gods love that casteth out fear, thus it is the casting out of that fear that will make us perfect in love.

Now I am not saying anyone other then Jesus has reached that status yet, however we all shall.

So mike how can one teach the fear of God and Gods perfect love at the same time, when it is Gods perfect love that casteth out fear?

In other words teaching eternal torment is teaching against the perfect love of God as it teaches humanity to fear God instead of love and reverence him.

As I've said before, I don't believe that God necessarily actively torments the damned. His love is never-ending, so I think it's possible that for those who hate God, His love feels like torments.

Oh so close mike, the highlighted part is actually correct if applied properly. While Christ is being formed in us, his very presence torments the heck out of our old man because our old man nature does not want to die.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Charlie24

The fear of the Lord doesn't exist in your world does it, pneuma?

nope not in the way you present it.

When Jesus said "not to fear the one who can kill the body but not the soul, but I say, fear Him that can destroy both body and soul in hell," what kind of fear is that?

Is that your lovy dovy respect thing

lol you do not even know what that scripture is saying charlie, you think to kill the body and soul in Gehenna is to kill the man, yet that is not what it is saying at all. Man is comprised of spirit , soul and body and the body and soul being spoken of is in reference to our old man which indeed will be destroyed in the fire of His love.

So yes that is my lovey dovy respect thing.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

It has been the dominant emotion toward God because it took the fear of God a long time to break through our primal savagery and teach us self-control during our species' spiritual childhood. It is an unavoidable misunderstanding in the immature during the process of instilling self-control over things our animal nature selfishly wants to do. Our own immature children misinterpret our own discipline efforts for that reason as well.

the fear of God has always been a part of our old man nature, but we have been given a new nature and should be view God through the lens of our new nature and not that lens of the old man that feareth God.

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Charlie24

You pneuma, are in much worse shape that Mystic! I sincerely believe there is hope for him!

That's all right charlie I know there is hope for you.

[Charlie24]

Originally Posted by pneuma

That's all right charlie I know there is hope for you.

I suggest you people start listening to what JBF has to say if want to find that narrow gate!

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Charlie24

I suggest you people start listening to what JBF has to say if want to find that narrow gate!

lol sorry charlie JBF is on the road to destruction, but he will get there in the end.

[Charlie24]

Originally Posted by pneuma

lol sorry charlie JBF is on the road to destruction, but he will get there in the end.

Everyone has the right to their opinion.