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God (the father) did have a history of being wrathful, as the OT attests. But... we had a big change once Jesus came along. Two very different periods and approaches.
Jews have the original way (as reflected in our OT), and Christians have the updated approach of the NT. Just as Jews won't follow the updated way, it doesn't add up that we follow the older ways. We have the loving ways of Jesus - for all peoples/gentiles - not the inner circle and old convent, with violent ways of Jehovah.
More forward with Jesus, or move back with Jehovah, but don't try to move in two directions at once.
Trinitarians believe Jehovah and Jesus are one in the same
Others believe Jesus was the only begotten Son of God and leave it at that, A Father and son relationship
Regardless, the Father and Son acted in harmony. Acted as one. They continue to act in harmony.
Jesus came to earth and fulfilled the covenant that was in existence at the time. He established a new covenant. He didn't tell people to stop worshipping Jehovah.
"Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor; 9 and he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” 10 Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! for it is written,‘Worship the Lord your God, and serve only him.’”-Matthew 4:8-10
He was quoting from Deuteronomy...
"Thou shalt fear Jehovah thy God; and him shalt thou serve, and shalt swear by his name."-Deuteronomy 6:13(ASV)
"Every good gift and every perfect present is from above, coming down from the Father of the celestial lights,who does not vary or change like the shifting shadows."-James 1:17
"Two sparrows sell for a coin of small value, do they not? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground without your Father’s knowledge. But even the hairs of your head are all numbered. So have no fear; you are worth more than many sparrows."-Jesus
The very name Jehovah carries the meaning that he proves to be whatever is necessary for the time.
Think of God (Jehovah)as a judge. A judge goes to court, imposes sentences on those convicted of crimes. Sometimes those sentences carry the maximum penalty other tines they are reduced or vacated. But a judge Then goes home and lives the life of a loving husband and father. Same man but different roles. God is like that-he takes on different roles.
actually sin was in the world but was not imputed unto man until the law.
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law and when A&E ate of it sin and death was imputed unto them.
physical death was already in the world and has been from the time of first life. The literal reading actually says "dying thou shalt die" if you eat from the TOKOGE. The law is spiritual and A&E suffered a spiritual death being placed under the law, which is a ministration of death.
God knew it was a possibility that is why even within this death there was given a way out as this death is our school teacher that leads us to Christ.
actually sin was in the world but was not imputed unto man until the law.
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Sin was in the world through Adam. The law came in with Moses. Sin was not in the world before Adam.
Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law and when A&E ate of it sin and death was imputed unto them.
1,000 times - no. The law is associated with Moses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma
physical death was already in the world and has been from the time of first life. The literal reading actually says "dying thou shalt die" if you eat from the TOKOGE. The law is spiritual and A&E suffered a spiritual death being placed under the law, which is a ministration of death.
God knew it was a possibility that is why even within this death there was given a way out as this death is our school teacher that leads us to Christ.
Just... no.
There was no law. Adam disobeyed (acted in a lack of faith towards) God's word.
actually sin was in the world but was not imputed unto man until the law.
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law and when A&E ate of it sin and death was imputed unto them.
physical death was already in the world and has been from the time of first life. The literal reading actually says "dying thou shalt die" if you eat from the TOKOGE. The law is spiritual and A&E suffered a spiritual death being placed under the law, which is a ministration of death.
God knew it was a possibility that is why even within this death there was given a way out as this death is our school teacher that leads us to Christ.
Would it be beneficial to man had he never eaten from the tree? Seems it would be obviously but how can one grow spiritually without knowing good from evil? In other words....was Gods intention all along that we eat from the forbidden tree? I think maybe not to be honest even though he knew we would but another way to look at it...would I want my dog Leon to know good from evil? Don't think having a neurotic pet would be very fun... heck, he's perfect just the way he his and I love him in spite of all his flaws. Does God love us any less, flaws included?
Context does matter in the interpetation of scripture. Wrath and judgment in the scriptures just refer to the negative spiritual consequences that we all face based on what we become. In order to consider God wrathful and vengeful we would need to ignore the context that controlled our ancient ancestors' recorded interpretations of any inspirations from God. To our ancient ancestors, God is the cause of everything that ever happens, including their own decisions and actions. They saw God as wrathful and vengeful and needing to be appeased by blood sacrifices. That context cannot be ignored when reading how they wrote things.
Our carnal-minded ancestors considered all negative consequences as the result of God's wrath and judgment, even if it was what they did, period. They did not lie about it. They just could not see it any other way. They did not know any better. To them, God had all the same emotions as we do, hate, anger, desire for vengeance, justice, etc. Therefore, when explaining the existence of any negative spiritual consequences they received as inspirations they would automatically be interpreted as judgments and punishments imposed by God.
This inherent bias and misunderstanding is the result of the very primitive interpretation of the early experiences in the fables as the actions of God who is wrathful and vengeful. They interpreted what happened as God punishing us for disobedience instead of preparing and training our animal ancestors to become spiritual adults. It is that misunderstanding of God born of the early experiences described in the fables of the Bible and during the Mosaic schoolmaster stage of obedience training using fear of God that caused the failure of the Old covenant that had to be corrected.
God was NEVER angry or punishing for ANY reason. Everything was for our training. God wants us to succeed NOT please Him by obedience. Our entire history and evolution have been toward attaining spiritual maturity in an animal species in a physical world which is neither easy nor natural. That is one of the reasons why Jesus was sent, NOT to pay for some ill-described "sins of mankind" or whatever.
God is not and NEVER was either wrathful or vengeful!!! There was no "Fall of man" or original sin. Eden was our first lesson in discriminating between good and evil. We would not need to deny anything in the scriptures if we simply recognized that they were written using this primitive and incorrect understanding of God. We can keep every single verse but we would need to reinterpret what they actually must have been trying to communicate from their warped perspective of God as wrathful and vengeful.
You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.
This misconception of God as a Godfather instead of our Father Abba, as Jesus presented Him, is why our carnal ancestors did not understand the spiritual significance and importance of Jesus. Jesus represented God in human form so enduring what He did with NO WRATH or vengeance whatsoever, just agape love and forgiveness, was supposed to correct our ancestors' misconception of God. But to our ancestors' carnal minds what was being done to Jesus had to have been ordered by God for some reason.
The problem is their overall context of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices completely skewed their interpretation away from the God revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ!! They invented their own "carnal milk" reasons and rationalized them using their tradition and history of blood sacrifices to appease God. We continue the process to this day, completely ignoring the "spiritual solid food" evidence in the clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus. If there were a Satan, he would be pleased. Corrupting that central message of God's True Nature and Holy Spirit of agape love has been the most effective false teaching imaginable. It has certainly proved to be so for millennia.
It is something that all Christians pray for Doc. When that term is used, it means a change on the earth for both God's people, as well as for other humans. We all anticipate the next day of wrath, in which God will send His son once more to remove the wicked and bring the Kingdom. What a glorious day for all Christians.
Context does matter in the interpetation of scripture. Wrath and judgment in the scriptures just refer to the negative spiritual consequences that we all face based on what we become. In order to consider God wrathful and vengeful we would need to ignore the context that controlled our ancient ancestors' recorded interpretations of any inspirations from God. To our ancient ancestors, God is the cause of everything that ever happens, including their own decisions and actions. They saw God as wrathful and vengeful and needing to be appeased by blood sacrifices. That context cannot be ignored when reading how they wrote things.
Our carnal-minded ancestors considered all negative consequences as the result of God's wrath and judgment, even if it was what they did, period. They did not lie about it. They just could not see it any other way. They did not know any better. To them, God had all the same emotions as we do, hate, anger, desire for vengeance, justice, etc. Therefore, when explaining the existence of any negative spiritual consequences they received as inspirations they would automatically be interpreted as judgments and punishments imposed by God.
This inherent bias and misunderstanding is the result of the very primitive interpretation of the early experiences in the fables as the actions of God who is wrathful and vengeful. They interpreted what happened as God punishing us for disobedience instead of preparing and training our animal ancestors to become spiritual adults. It is that misunderstanding of God born of the early experiences described in the fables of the Bible and during the Mosaic schoolmaster stage of obedience training using fear of God that caused the failure of the Old covenant that had to be corrected.
God was NEVER angry or punishing for ANY reason. Everything was for our training. God wants us to succeed NOT please Him by obedience. Our entire history and evolution have been toward attaining spiritual maturity in an animal species in a physical world which is neither easy nor natural. That is one of the reasons why Jesus was sent, NOT to pay for some ill-described "sins of mankind" or whatever.
God is not and NEVER was either wrathful or vengeful!!! There was no "Fall of man" or original sin. Eden was our first lesson in discriminating between good and evil. We would not need to deny anything in the scriptures if we simply recognized that they were written using this primitive and incorrect understanding of God. We can keep every single verse but we would need to reinterpret what they actually must have been trying to communicate from their warped perspective of God as wrathful and vengeful.
You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.
This misconception of God as a Godfather instead of our Father Abba, as Jesus presented Him, is why our carnal ancestors did not understand the spiritual significance and importance of Jesus. Jesus represented God in human form so enduring what He did with NO WRATH or vengeance whatsoever, just agape love and forgiveness, was supposed to correct our ancestors' misconception of God. But to our ancestors' carnal minds what was being done to Jesus had to have been ordered by God for some reason.
The problem is their overall context of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices completely skewed their interpretation away from the God revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ!! They invented their own "carnal milk" reasons and rationalized them using their tradition and history of blood sacrifices to appease God. We continue the process to this day, completely ignoring the "spiritual solid food" evidence in the clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus. If there were a Satan, he would be pleased. Corrupting that central message of God's True Nature and Holy Spirit of agape love has been the most effective false teaching imaginable. It has certainly proved to be so for millennia.
Sin was in the world through Adam. The law came in with Moses. Sin was not in the world before Adam.
Romans 5:12 - Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.
1,000 times - no. The law is associated with Moses.
Just... no.
There was no law. Adam disobeyed (acted in a lack of faith towards) God's word.
read it again
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Now if the law did not come in until Moses why was sin and death imputed unto Adam?
What gives us the knowledge of sin? the law
What happened when A&E ate from the tree? their eyes were open and they realized they were naked. Now if you look up the word naked you will see they realized they had the same nature as the serpent, subtle.
Now think about it, did the serpent have a sinful nature, or ever sin before Adam sinned?
Like the scriptures say Drob, sin was in the world, but sin was not imputed until the law.
The tree of knowledge of good and evil is the law and when A&E ate of it sin and death was imputed unto them.
This simply cannot be denied as the wages of sin is death and Adam died a spiritual death the day he ate from the tree and the law is spiritual death for it is a ministration of death.
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