Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You don't believe in the physical resurrection of Christ.
if you don't believe that, then you don't have the mind of Christ... because if you had the mind of Christ, He would tell you that He was physically raised from the dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by G.Duval
on spiritual level NT is against physical resurrection, on soul level it is ok, but hardly supports the notion.
12"For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account."
btw, Christ is Spirit.
What???
Luke 24:36-43 - 36 While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.
You don't believe in the physical resurrection of Christ.
if you don't believe that, then you don't have the mind of Christ... because if you had the mind of Christ, He would tell you that He was physically raised from the dead.
I accept that your carnal mind cannot relate to a Spirit rebirth. We are where we are in our spiritual development. But that is not the important or essential aspect of Christ's Gospel. God's Holy Spirit of agape love and our reconciliation with Him (Not His reconciliation with us) is the central Good News Gospel.
The Bad News Gospel is that God is a wrathful and vengeful God who has somehow been appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to enable Him to forgive us for "whatever." In no sane world is that Good News.
I accept that your carnal mind cannot relate to a Spirit rebirth. We are where we are in our spiritual development. But that is not the important or essential aspect of Christ's Gospel. God's Holy Spirit of agape love and our reconciliation with Him (Not His reconciliation with us) is the central Good News Gospel.
The Bad News Gospel is that God is a wrathful and vengeful God who has somehow been appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to enable Him to forgive us for "whatever." In no sane world is that Good News.
That is incredibly rude, arrogant, and dismissive.
I accept that your carnal mind cannot relate to a Spirit rebirth. We are where we are in our spiritual development. But that is not the important or essential aspect of Christ's Gospel. God's Holy Spirit of agape love and our reconciliation with Him (Not His reconciliation with us) is the central Good News Gospel.
The Bad News Gospel is that God is a wrathful and vengeful God who has somehow been appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to enable Him to forgive us for "whatever." In no sane world is that Good News.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
That is incredibly rude, arrogant, and dismissive.
Context does matter in the interpetation of scripture. Wrath and judgment in the scriptures just refer to the negative spiritual consequences that we all face based on what we become. In order to consider God wrathful and vengeful we would need to ignore the context that controlled our ancient ancestors' recorded interpretations of any inspirations from God. To our ancient ancestors, God is the cause of everything that ever happens, including their own decisions and actions. They saw God as wrathful and vengeful and needing to be appeased by blood sacrifices. That context cannot be ignored when reading how they wrote things.
Our carnal-minded ancestors considered all negative consequences as the result of God's wrath and judgment, even if it was what they did, period. They did not lie about it. They just could not see it any other way. They did not know any better. To them, God had all the same emotions as we do, hate, anger, desire for vengeance, justice, etc. Therefore, when explaining the existence of any negative spiritual consequences they received as inspirations they would automatically be interpreted as judgments and punishments imposed by God.
This inherent bias and misunderstanding is the result of the very primitive interpretation of the early experiences in the fables as the actions of God who is wrathful and vengeful. They interpreted what happened as God punishing us for disobedience instead of preparing and training our animal ancestors to become spiritual adults. It is that misunderstanding of God born of the early experiences described in the fables of the Bible and during the Mosaic schoolmaster stage of obedience training using fear of God that caused the failure of the Old covenant that had to be corrected.
God was NEVER angry or punishing for ANY reason. Everything was for our training. God wants us to succeed NOT please Him by obedience. Our entire history and evolution have been toward attaining spiritual maturity in an animal species in a physical world which is neither easy nor natural. That is one of the reasons why Jesus was sent, NOT to pay for some ill-described "sins of mankind" or whatever.
God is not and NEVER was either wrathful or vengeful!!! There was no "Fall of man" or original sin. Eden was our first lesson in discriminating between good and evil. We would not need to deny anything in the scriptures if we simply recognized that they were written using this primitive and incorrect understanding of God. We can keep every single verse but we would need to reinterpret what they actually must have been trying to communicate from their warped perspective of God as wrathful and vengeful.
You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.
This misconception of God as a Godfather instead of our Father Abba, as Jesus presented Him, is why our carnal ancestors did not understand the spiritual significance and importance of Jesus. Jesus represented God in human form so enduring what He did with NO WRATH or vengeance whatsoever, just agape love and forgiveness, was supposed to correct our ancestors' misconception of God. But to our ancestors' carnal minds what was being done to Jesus had to have been ordered by God for some reason.
The problem is their overall context of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices completely skewed their interpretation away from the God revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ!! They invented their own "carnal milk" reasons and rationalized them using their tradition and history of blood sacrifices to appease God. We continue the process to this day, completely ignoring the "spiritual solid food" evidence in the clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus. If there were a Satan, he would be pleased. Corrupting that central message of God's True Nature and Holy Spirit of agape love has been the most effective false teaching imaginable. It has certainly proved to be so for millennia.
The problem with this view is that it seems to me you're presuming that to be angry or to punish are inherently bad things.
I just can't agree with your premise. It is right and good to be angry at injustices. It is right and good to punish evil if one is in a legitimate position to do so, and if the punishment would ultimately result in the betterment of the one being punished.
No the issue is how to reconcile the human state of mind of wrath attributed to God by our ancestors with the actual state of mind of God as revealed unambiguously by Jesus Christ. They are NOT compatible. Why our human ancestors attributed wrath to God is no mystery. They attributed absolutely everything to God, including whatever they did or felt. Their only explanation for negative consequences in their carnal minds was God's wrath.
Jesus was angry at the money changers in the temple. He was so angry that he inflicted duly deserved violence upon them.
You don't believe in the physical resurrection of Christ.
if you don't believe that, then you don't have the mind of Christ... because if you had the mind of Christ, He would tell you that He was physically raised from the dead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
I accept that your carnal mind cannot relate to a Spirit rebirth. We are where we are in our spiritual development. But that is not the important or essential aspect of Christ's Gospel. God's Holy Spirit of agape love and our reconciliation with Him (Not His reconciliation with us) is the central Good News Gospel.
The Bad News Gospel is that God is a wrathful and vengeful God who has somehow been appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to enable Him to forgive us for "whatever." In no sane world is that Good News.
First of all - there is no Spirit (capital "S") rebirth - as the Holy Spirit as never been dead.
Second - How do you know I can't relate to a spiritual rebirth? Did you ask me - or is your head so stuck in your own pride and platitudes that you just hear yourself - and everyone else is like Charlie Brown's teacher? You can't even hear Christ - because if you did, He would tell you that He was physically resurrected from death. Ultimately - Christ has to equip you to hear Him. I guess it hasn't happened to this point.
Third - your rendition of a Bad News Gospel is a lie... a strawman. It is your lack of understanding of who God is - and your lack of acceptance of how God has revealed Himself that fuels you to come up with a god, or an idol, fashioned into something that you like and you can control... which in the end makes you, your own god - and with respect to that, you are correct in saying that I can't relate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
That is incredibly rude, arrogant, and dismissive.
I am used to it.
He is probably put off because I put out there his non-belief of Christ's physical resurrection - which Christ clearly displayed in Luke 24 that I posted at the top of the page.
I accept that your carnal mind cannot relate to a Spirit rebirth. We are where we are in our spiritual development. But that is not the important or essential aspect of Christ's Gospel. God's Holy Spirit of agape love and our reconciliation with Him (Not His reconciliation with us) is the central Good News Gospel.
The Bad News Gospel is that God is a wrathful and vengeful God who has somehow been appeased by a horrendous scourging and crucifixion to enable Him to forgive us for "whatever." In no sane world is that Good News.
In the beginning angelic seraphim declared our Father's work good. In the ending, those angelic host will fold their wings over their face and feet as they call to one another, "Holy, holy, holy, the whole earth is full of His glory".
“And the angel said, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”
In the beginning angelic seraphim declared our Father's work good. In the ending, those angelic host will fold their wings over their face and feet as they call to one another, "Holy, holy, holy, the whole earth is full of His glory". “And the angel said, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.”
... and to me the ' good tiding of great joy' is found in the 'good news of God's Kingdom' (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 24:14)
As the ancient Israelites were protected for the wrath of the 10th plague so will God's people today be protected - Isaiah 26:20
What Is God's Wrath? God's wrath is His reaction to sin and uncleanness.
The issue is not whether God has wrath. The issue is to understand why the wrath is there side by side with His character of love.
I find we can see God's reaction when He brought the 10 plagues upon ancient Egypt.
Each plague humiliated an Egyptian god.
So, why the coming ' wrath ' (Rev. 19:14-15; Isaiah 11:3-4) is: to rid the Earth of the wicked - Rev. 11:18 B.
As God's people were protected in ancient Egypt so will God's people be protected today - Isaiah 26:20.
For a great crowd of people will come through the coming 'great tribulation ' of Rev. 7:14,9.
The figurative humble ' sheep ' at the time of Matthew 25:31-33,37 can remain alive on Earth and be here to see the start of calendar Day One of Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
