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Old 08-03-2021, 11:28 AM
 
63,840 posts, read 40,128,566 times
Reputation: 7881

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Context does matter in the interpetation of scripture. Wrath and judgment in the scriptures just refer to the negative spiritual consequences that we all face based on what we become. In order to consider God wrathful and vengeful we would need to ignore the context that controlled our ancient ancestors' recorded interpretations of any inspirations from God. To our ancient ancestors, God is the cause of everything that ever happens, including their own decisions and actions. They saw God as wrathful and vengeful and needing to be appeased by blood sacrifices. That context cannot be ignored when reading how they wrote things.

Our carnal-minded ancestors considered all negative consequences as the result of God's wrath and judgment, even if it was what they did, period. They did not lie about it. They just could not see it any other way. They did not know any better. To them, God had all the same emotions as we do, hate, anger, desire for vengeance, justice, etc. Therefore, when explaining the existence of any negative spiritual consequences they received as inspirations they would automatically be interpreted as judgments and punishments imposed by God.

This inherent bias and misunderstanding is the result of the very primitive interpretation of the early experiences in the fables as the actions of God who is wrathful and vengeful. They interpreted what happened as God punishing us for disobedience instead of preparing and training our animal ancestors to become spiritual adults. It is that misunderstanding of God born of the early experiences described in the fables of the Bible and during the Mosaic schoolmaster stage of obedience training using fear of God that caused the failure of the Old covenant that had to be corrected.

God was NEVER angry or punishing for ANY reason. Everything was for our training. God wants us to succeed NOT please Him by obedience. Our entire history and evolution have been toward attaining spiritual maturity in an animal species in a physical world which is neither easy nor natural. That is one of the reasons why Jesus was sent, NOT to pay for some ill-described "sins of mankind" or whatever.

God is not and NEVER was either wrathful or vengeful!!! There was no "Fall of man" or original sin. Eden was our first lesson in discriminating between good and evil. We would not need to deny anything in the scriptures if we simply recognized that they were written using this primitive and incorrect understanding of God. We can keep every single verse but we would need to reinterpret what they actually must have been trying to communicate from their warped perspective of God as wrathful and vengeful.

You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.

This misconception of God as a Godfather instead of our Father Abba, as Jesus presented Him, is why our carnal ancestors did not understand the spiritual significance and importance of Jesus. Jesus represented God in human form so enduring what He did with NO WRATH or vengeance whatsoever, just agape love and forgiveness, was supposed to correct our ancestors' misconception of God. But to our ancestors' carnal minds what was being done to Jesus had to have been ordered by God for some reason.

The problem is their overall context of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices completely skewed their interpretation away from the God revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ!! They invented their own "carnal milk" reasons and rationalized them using their tradition and history of blood sacrifices to appease God. We continue the process to this day, completely ignoring the "spiritual solid food" evidence in the clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus. If there were a Satan, he would be pleased. Corrupting that central message of God's True Nature and Holy Spirit of agape love has been the most effective false teaching imaginable. It has certainly proved to be so for millennia.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:30 AM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,033,638 times
Reputation: 3584
I am amazed at your constant attempt to deny Scripture.
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Old 08-03-2021, 11:42 AM
 
4,483 posts, read 1,324,301 times
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This is pitiful to say the least for a Christian to post! This is one of the reasons Christians are mocked and laughed at by the agnostics and atheists! Even they can see your denial of what you say you believe and opposition to Christianity!
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:01 PM
 
63,840 posts, read 40,128,566 times
Reputation: 7881
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie View Post
I am amazed at your constant attempt to deny Scripture.
Not deny, reinterpret using the context of God as Jesus Christ revealed Him to be instead of the wrathful, vengeful God our ignorant primitive ancestors believed Him to be. You should try it. You would be amazed what a difference it makes in understanding God and Jesus.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Middle America
11,102 posts, read 7,174,871 times
Reputation: 17012
God (the father) did have a history of being wrathful, as the OT attests. But... we had a big change once Jesus came along. Two very different periods and approaches.

Jews have the original way (as reflected in our OT), and Christians have the updated approach of the NT. Just as Jews won't follow the updated way, it doesn't add up that we follow the older ways. We have the loving ways of Jesus - for all peoples/gentiles - not the inner circle and old convent, with violent ways of Jehovah.

More forward with Jesus, or move back with Jehovah, but don't try to move in two directions at once.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:12 PM
 
45,585 posts, read 27,215,643 times
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What Is God's Wrath?

God's wrath is His reaction to sin and uncleanness.

The issue is not whether God has wrath.

The issue is to understand why the wrath is there side by side with His character of love.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:15 PM
 
18,976 posts, read 7,033,638 times
Reputation: 3584
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Not deny, reinterpret using the context of God as Jesus Christ revealed Him to be instead of the wrathful, vengeful God our ignorant primitive ancestors believed Him to be. You should try it. You would be amazed what a difference it makes in understanding God and Jesus.
Jesus actually said God was wrathful. But you don't like that part, do you?
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:26 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
33,266 posts, read 26,477,412 times
Reputation: 16380
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoreau424 View Post
God (the father) did have a history of being wrathful, as the OT attests. But... we had a big change once Jesus came along. Two very different periods and approaches.

Jews have the original way (as reflected in our OT), and Christians have the updated approach of the NT. Just as Jews won't follow the updated way, it doesn't add up that we follow the older ways. We have the loving ways of Jesus - for all peoples/gentiles - not the inner circle and old convent, with violent ways of Jehovah.

More forward with Jesus, or move back with Jehovah, but don't try to move in two directions at once.
Jesus IS Yahweh, the second person of the godhead. And only by ignoring the book of Revelation can you deny that the New Testament speaks of God's judgments on the world.
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Old 08-03-2021, 12:29 PM
 
3,573 posts, read 1,178,732 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Context does matter in the interpetation of scripture. Wrath and judgment in the scriptures just refer to the negative spiritual consequences that we all face based on what we become. In order to consider God wrathful and vengeful we would need to ignore the context that controlled our ancient ancestors' recorded interpretations of any inspirations from God. To our ancient ancestors, God is the cause of everything that ever happens, including their own decisions and actions. They saw God as wrathful and vengeful and needing to be appeased by blood sacrifices. That context cannot be ignored when reading how they wrote things.

Our carnal-minded ancestors considered all negative consequences as the result of God's wrath and judgment, even if it was what they did, period. They did not lie about it. They just could not see it any other way. They did not know any better. To them, God had all the same emotions as we do, hate, anger, desire for vengeance, justice, etc. Therefore, when explaining the existence of any negative spiritual consequences they received as inspirations they would automatically be interpreted as judgments and punishments imposed by God.

This inherent bias and misunderstanding is the result of the very primitive interpretation of the early experiences in the fables as the actions of God who is wrathful and vengeful. They interpreted what happened as God punishing us for disobedience instead of preparing and training our animal ancestors to become spiritual adults. It is that misunderstanding of God born of the early experiences described in the fables of the Bible and during the Mosaic schoolmaster stage of obedience training using fear of God that caused the failure of the Old covenant that had to be corrected.

God was NEVER angry or punishing for ANY reason. Everything was for our training. God wants us to succeed NOT please Him by obedience. Our entire history and evolution have been toward attaining spiritual maturity in an animal species in a physical world which is neither easy nor natural. That is one of the reasons why Jesus was sent, NOT to pay for some ill-described "sins of mankind" or whatever.

God is not and NEVER was either wrathful or vengeful!!! There was no "Fall of man" or original sin. Eden was our first lesson in discriminating between good and evil. We would not need to deny anything in the scriptures if we simply recognized that they were written using this primitive and incorrect understanding of God. We can keep every single verse but we would need to reinterpret what they actually must have been trying to communicate from their warped perspective of God as wrathful and vengeful.

You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.

This misconception of God as a Godfather instead of our Father Abba, as Jesus presented Him, is why our carnal ancestors did not understand the spiritual significance and importance of Jesus. Jesus represented God in human form so enduring what He did with NO WRATH or vengeance whatsoever, just agape love and forgiveness, was supposed to correct our ancestors' misconception of God. But to our ancestors' carnal minds what was being done to Jesus had to have been ordered by God for some reason.

The problem is their overall context of a wrathful, vengeful God who needed to be appeased by blood sacrifices completely skewed their interpretation away from the God revealed and unambiguously demonstrated by Jesus Christ!! They invented their own "carnal milk" reasons and rationalized them using their tradition and history of blood sacrifices to appease God. We continue the process to this day, completely ignoring the "spiritual solid food" evidence in the clear and unambiguous demonstration of God's Holy Spirit of agape love by Jesus. If there were a Satan, he would be pleased. Corrupting that central message of God's True Nature and Holy Spirit of agape love has been the most effective false teaching imaginable. It has certainly proved to be so for millennia.
"Our carnal-minded ancestors"
And we too.
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Old 08-03-2021, 01:27 PM
 
45,585 posts, read 27,215,643 times
Reputation: 23898
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post

You can see this for yourself if you try to reread some of the most judgmental verses. Try to interpret what they must have meant using a God of agape love who is our Father and wants us to succeed by overcoming and enduring what this life presents us with. Reject the concept of a Godfather of wrath and vengeance who wants to punish us for our disobedience and failures.
Numbers 16:41-50

41 But on the next day all the congregation of the sons of Israel grumbled against Moses and Aaron, saying, “You are the ones who have caused the death of the LORD’S people.” 42 It came about, however, when the congregation had assembled against Moses and Aaron, that they turned toward the tent of meeting, and behold, the cloud covered it and the glory of the LORD appeared. 43 Then Moses and Aaron came to the front of the tent of meeting, 44 and the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 45 “Get away from among this congregation, that I may consume them instantly.” Then they fell on their faces. 46 Moses said to Aaron, “Take your censer and put in it fire from the altar, and lay incense on it; then bring it quickly to the congregation and make atonement for them, for wrath has gone forth from the LORD, the plague has begun!” 47 Then Aaron took it as Moses had spoken, and ran into the midst of the assembly, for behold, the plague had begun among the people. So he put on the incense and made atonement for the people. 48 He took his stand between the dead and the living, so that the plague was checked. 49 But those who died by the plague were 14,700, besides those who died on account of Korah. 50 Then Aaron returned to Moses at the doorway of the tent of meeting, for the plague had been checked.

Moses understood who the Lord is and mitigated the loss of life from the Lord as fast as possible.

The church today may want to take note and return to the Lord... 600,000+ right now with no earthly answers in sight.
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