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only if you believe that "every knee will bow and every tongue confess" means universal salvation...
"Universal" there goes that superiority again! No doubt one must go through the RCC to get that salvation, right Mike. That's what your Superior Church says!
There's that well know superiority in action! "You do not have the right............."
Those rights are reserved for the members of the RCC, right Mike!
No. You're literally unreasonable.
You deal with the "words of Scripture only", while ignoring the fact that the words of Scripture do not list the books which ought to be considered Scripture.
It is not possible to know what Scripture is unless a source outside Scripture tells you.
Therefore, your standard for discussion is self-contradictory, i.e. unreasonable.
You deal with the "words of Scripture only", while ignoring the fact that the words of Scripture do not list the books which ought to be considered Scripture.
It is not possible to know what Scripture is unless a source outside Scripture tells you.
Therefore, your standard for discussion is self-contradictory, i.e. unreasonable.
Do you want me to list the demands of the RCC for everyone to see, and see who is being unreasonable?
The Ethiopian and Eritrean Orthodox churches actually do consider the Book of Enoch to be canonical, since it seems to mean so much to you. I have no doubt that there is great value to be found in reading the book. However, that can be said about many spiritual and religious writings that are not included in the Scriptural canon.
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I know the 1 book of Enoch is in other canons mike and that is the point. You say it is not scriptural, others say it is and your only defense for that is YOUR tradition.
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Basically, yes. I have found the Catholic claims to be far and away the most credible over all of the other competing claims.
it is obvious that you do.
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No, I find that interpretation to be a recipe for chaos
Mike making Peter the rock of the church makes peter the head of the church, the foundation of the church. In other words you are building on the wrong foundation. Scripture tells us who the rock is, who the foundation we build on is and it is not Peter. So again you are placing your tradition ahead of scripture and taking away Jesus Christ rightful place.
I know the 1 book of Enoch is in other canons mike and that is the point. You say it is not scriptural, others say it is and your only defense for that is YOUR tradition.
it is obvious that you do.
Mike making Peter the rock of the church makes peter the head of the church, the foundation of the church. In other words you are building on the wrong foundation. Scripture tells us who the rock is, who the foundation we build on is and it is not Peter. So again you are placing your tradition ahead of scripture and taking away Jesus Christ rightful place.
Mike who is the ROCK in these scriptures referring to.
For thou art my rock and my fortress; therefore for thy name's sake lead me, and guide me.
From the end of the earth will I cry unto thee, when my heart is overwhelmed: lead me to the rock that is higher than I.
He only is my rock and my salvation; he is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.
In God is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in God.
O come, let us sing unto the LORD: let us make a joyful noise to the rock of our salvation.
As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mike is it not obvious that according to scripture the ROCK is Jesus Christ?
In response to BaptistFundie's above post, I reject your assertion that "the RCC does not follow Peter's and the rest of the apostles' teachings. There is no indication that much of what the RCC teaches today was believed by them."
I see nothing in Catholicism that contradicts Scripture, and there is plenty of indication that the Catholic religion is the religion of the Apostles.
Unless you want to be more specific, that's really all I can say in response.
Prove purgatory, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the Mass, and synergism, to start with. Or start with the first and we'll vigorously debate it in a civil, good natured way, treating each other as friends.
Ke’pha is a movable stone which equals, Lithos and Petros.
Now, the word SHU’A is translated as a Massive Rock.
"You are KE'PHA but upon this SHU’A I will build my church."
You are Petros, but on this PETRA, I will build my Church.
It's all regarding Christ, even Peter made this confession.
It's rendered in English as "you are Peter, and on this rock", NOT "you are Peter, but on this rock".
Some Eastern churches actually use Aramaic as their liturgical language. This verse in their texts is rendered like this: ܐܴܦ݂ ܐܷܢܳܐ ܐܴܡܰܪ ܐ̱ܢܳܐ ܠܴܟ݂ ܂ ܕܱ݁ܐܢ̄ܬ݁ ܗ̄ܽܘ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܂ ܘܥܰܠ ܗܳܕ݂ܶܐ ܟܻ݁ܐܦ݂ܳܐ ܐܷܒ݂ܢܶܝܗ ܠܥܺܕ̱݁ܬ݁ܝ܂ ܘܬ݂ܱܪ̈ܥܶܐ ܕܱ݁ܫܝܽܘܠ ܠܴܐ ܢܶܚܣܢܽܘܢܳܗ, using "kepha" in both places for "rock", so I'm not sure where you got the "shu'a" from.
Prove purgatory, the perpetual virginity of Mary, the Mass, and synergism, to start with. Or start with the first and we'll vigorously debate it in a civil, good natured way, treating each other as friends.
What's our basis for proof?
For me, the proof is as simple as "the Catholic Church dogmatically says so"; but I get the feeling that won't work for you
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