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Not if said next oldest was at odds with her and Jesus. Remember how they came and tried to take him away? That they didn't believe he was the Messiah? That they chided him for not going to the Feast and making a public appearance? It appears that no, they didn't believe in Jesus.
Yes. He didn't say "woman, behold your children, the church".
Nothing there about her being a mystical mother to us all. That is reading into it.
Look, I know that you're likely copying/pasting this stuff from your favorite catholic apologist. I get it. You want to believe this...you trust in the men that you think represent the church, which you've been told is what you should do. But you really are coming across as someone that just doesn't get it. You're trying to argue but you aren't actually explaining the points you're trying to make.
Why do you suppose that Jesus would tell John to take Mary into himself?
Why do you suppose that Jesus would tell John to take Mary into himself?
Just read the text. He was her new caretaker. That's it. Don't read into it what isn't there. He told John to care for her. He didn't declare her the mystical mother of all Christians.
Just read the text. He was her new caretaker. That's it. Don't read into it what isn't there. He told John to care for her.
'Caretaker'? New? 'Care for Her'? words nowhere in these verses. And I'm the one reading into the verses?
Mary is the manifestation of Christ's church present at the foot of the cross when Christ's own blood initiates the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Through her not only did God make present to us a Saviour but also thru Her presence at His New Covenant WE are made present at this His Covenantal Sacrifice and therefore participants in it if we take her into ourself as John did @ John19:27 per Jesus's word there at John 19 .
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Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
He didn't declare her the mystical mother of all Christians.
He did that in Rev 12:1-17 .
You seem like the angry one in v.17 - "waging war against the rest of her offspring!"
'Caretaker'? New? 'Care for Her'? words nowhere in these verses. And I'm the one reading into the verses?
Mary is the manifestation of Christ's church present at the foot of the cross when Christ's own blood initiates the New and Everlasting Covenant.
Through her not only did God make present to us a Saviour but also thru Her presence at His New Covenant WE are made present at this His Covenantal Sacrifice and therefore participants in it if we take her into ourself as John did @ John19:27 per Jesus's word there at John 19 .
So you think of her as an allegory now?
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He did that in Rev 12:1-17 .
You seem like the angry one in v.17 - "waging war against the rest of her offspring!"
No, she wasn't mentioned in Revelation. Again, that's your favorite apologist reading into it what isn't there.
I think things are being related or compared in the wrong ways
The woman in Revelation over time achieves a status not given at Genesis
Rev 5:10**And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth
Rev 12:1**And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2**And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:3**And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
Rev 12:4**And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5**And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
Rev 12:6**And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
Rev 17:18**And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Gen 3:12**And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13**And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14**And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15**And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16**Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17**And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18**Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19**In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Gen 3:20**And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
The man/woman are a partnership each with their own type of duty/responsibility
Last edited by Meerkat2; 04-01-2023 at 03:25 PM..
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