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Ah, that's a sweet story. Looks fishy, as though someone has been recruited to specifically support this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
What? Is it really so inconceivable that something like that could have happened? For crying out loud, do you distrust everybody, everywhere, all of the time?
I wouldn’t take it heart Katzpur, everyone has their own opinion and everyone in their turn gets a share of the strife that is naturally there
I wouldn’t take it heart Katzpur, everyone has their own opinion and everyone in their turn gets a share of the strife that is naturally there
I know, but seriously... if BF, for instance, were ever to say something nice about Mormonism, good old Thoreau would claim it was because I bribed him to. I mean, there's cynical and then there's cynical and then there's Thoreau.
Has anybody besides me noticed that the OP has never been back to comment on the thread he started? Wouldn't you think that if you care enough to start a thread, you'd have something to say on the subject?
Yeah. Happens quite frequently, and I'm not a fan.
Okay, let's just back up a bit here. Here's the quote that started the whole thing...
You weighed in by saying...
I responded...
You failed to address my challenge. Instead you said...
A few posts later, you continued by posting two direct quotes from LDS scripture...
And guess what? I responded by saying (with respect to the last two quotes you posted)...
So just what is it we're arguing about? Just like numerous other highly-regarded (even if not by you) other Christians from Irenaeus to Clement to Justin Martyr to Athanasius to Augustine to C.S. Lewis, Mormons believe that we have been given the divine potential to become like our Father in Heaven, through His grace and with His blessing.
I'm NOT hesitant to say anything that's true. What is not true and what I won't "admit" to is that Mormons believe that "men will be getting their own planet when they did." That's a disrespectful caricature that you and others have bought into, and it is NOT what we teach or believe.
Actually, to be fair, what I provided documentation on was the idea that men become gods. I did not actually provide documentation on historical Mormon teaching that men get their own planets. So, yes, you’re correct, my apologies, I did get off base there.
Well, what do you know. We actually found something to agree on! (Also, I just looked at your profile. I will be 73 next Monday and about 90% of my ancestors are from England, so we also have that in common. Are you from anywhere near Bath? My husband and I took at 30-day road trip to England, Scotland and Wales a few years ago, and absolutely LOVED it!)
I spend about four months a year in the United Kingdom, mostly in England. And my newest Granddaughter has dual citizenship (British/American). I also spend time in the Netherlands, and several months in Kauai, Hawaii or Arizona. Next will be North Carolina for a few months, perhaps a bit longer. Obviously, I enjoy traveling! Of course the laptop and smart phone go with me (at my daughters request or for business, although I am retired).
I spend about four months a year in the United Kingdom, mostly in England. And my newest Granddaughter has dual citizenship (British/American). I also spend time in the Netherlands, and several months in Kauai, Hawaii or Arizona. Next will be North Carolina for a few months, perhaps a bit longer. Obviously, I enjoy traveling! Of course the laptop and smart phone go with me (at my daughters request or for business, although I am retired).
Temporary off-topic but I've sensed that you have an affiliation with England due to certain expressions and maybe the odd spelling that you've used at times, Jerwade. The more recent one was your use of 'nappy' in one of your posts. You mention 'granddaughter' and that you're retired but in my mind, based on your posts, you're a young man. A different thread, obviously, but I wonder how many of us visualize someone by their posts that may be totally different to who they really are, physically and age-wise, I mean.
Has anybody besides me noticed that the OP has never been back to comment on the thread he started? Wouldn't you think that if you care enough to start a thread, you'd have something to say on the subject?
A. OP is gearing up to celebrate your 73rd birthday and no time to respond. Early Happy Birthday greetings by the way....
B. All this arguing and controversy scared the OP off and they ran for the hills...
C. LDS "radar" and search engines are so powerful they already reverse engineered the OP's post, obtained his/her address and the missionaries have the OP half signed up already, giving no time to attend to thread...
Any insight would be greatly appreciated! I've tried a lot of different churches and this one just has a very strong presence of the Holy Spirit. Would love some advice.
You're going about this wrong.
To sum up their teaching in a short way and highlight the ways it differs from Christianity:
(1) Christians believe in a Triune God consisting of the co-equal, co-eternal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They believe that as such, Jesus was not a created being and that salvation is by faith, through grace, evidenced by works (with different flavors of Christianity falling along different places of that continuum). He came to earth to save mankind, was crucified, died, and rose from the dead on the third day. If this event is not historical fact, the entire Christian religion breaks down. He ascended into heaven and will return to judge the living and the dead.
The formal statement of Christian belief was first laid out in the 300s AD in what was called the Nicene Creed, the text of which you can see here:
"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic [universal, not Roman Catholic] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one
for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen."
(2) Mormons reject the Nicene creed and believe in a Unitary diety. The Mormon Church teaches that Jesus was a created being, the spirit brother of Lucifer. They believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet who an angel supposedly called "Moroni" revealed the Book of Mormon to on Golden Plates which were translated by Smith using seeing stones. They believe that through the practice of the Mormon religion, you can achieve divinity yourself and that in the afterlife you will be given your own planet to rule in conjunction with your wife (if you find her pleasing) to have spirit babies. Think of it sort of like a spiritual multi-level marketing program. Oh, and the Garden of Eden is supposedly in Missouri.
As you can see, it is a separate religion distinct from the historic Christian faith.
To sum up their teaching in a short way and highlight the ways it differs from Christianity:
(1) Christians believe in a Triune God consisting of the co-equal, co-eternal Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They believe that as such, Jesus was not a created being and that salvation is by faith, through grace, evidenced by works (with different flavors of Christianity falling along different places of that continuum). He came to earth to save mankind, was crucified, died, and rose from the dead on the third day. If this event is not historical fact, the entire Christian religion breaks down. He ascended into heaven and will return to judge the living and the dead.
The formal statement of Christian belief was first laid out in the 300s AD in what was called the Nicene Creed, the text of which you can see here:
"We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father.
With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic [universal, not Roman Catholic] and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one
for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen."
(2) Mormons reject the Nicene creed and believe in a Unitary diety. The Mormon Church teaches that Jesus was a created being, the spirit brother of Lucifer. They believe that Joseph Smith was a prophet who an angel supposedly called "Moroni" revealed the Book of Mormon to on Golden Plates which were translated by Smith using seeing stones. They believe that through the practice of the Mormon religion, you can achieve divinity yourself and that in the afterlife you will be given your own planet to rule in conjunction with your wife (if you find her pleasing) to have spirit babies. Think of it sort of like a spiritual multi-level marketing program. Oh, and the Garden of Eden is supposedly in Missouri.
As you can see, it is a separate religion distinct from the historic Christian faith.
Since this forum accepts all Christians, some correction is in order. First of all, the "Church Of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" is Christian be definition. It's right there in the name.
Second, not all Christians subscribe to the Doctrine of the Trinity. Those that don't include the LDS and the Jehovah's Witnesses, yet they are obviously Christians.
There are many denominations that do not use the Nicene Creed.
We accept all Christians here. Beyond (obviously) a belief in Jesus Christ, we make no further requirements.
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What? Is it really so inconceivable that something like that could have happened? For crying out loud, do you distrust everybody, everywhere, all of the time?
(Also, I just looked at your profile. I will be 73 next Monday and about 90% of my ancestors are from England, so we also have that in common. Are you from anywhere near Bath? My husband and I took at 30-day road trip to England, Scotland and Wales a few years ago, and absolutely LOVED it!)
