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..The Comforter (Holy Spirit) is within us all, thanks to Jesus, but we do not all allow Him to guide and direct our daily lives because we evoke different, often quite opposite states of mind. Only when we are in the compatible states of mind can we be guided by the Comforter to the truth God has "written in our hearts" and avoid sin ("missing the mark").
Yes, babies are born sinless, but as we get older we get "spiritually polluted" by the world which indoctrinates us with false notions and wrong mindsets etc unless we resist it-
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world" (James 1:27)
Fortunately for the other 99.999999999999% of Christians - i.e., pretty much everyone but you - Paul has given us a clear definition of the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Jesus has given us clear direction as to what is required to enter into eternal life. Both the OT and NT have given us a clear understanding of God's love, holiness and justice.
Your Niceness Theology expands this to include unbiblical notions like "unconditional acceptance" and "non-judgmentalness." The God of Christianity is unconditionally accepting and non-judgmental??? The Jesus of the NT is unconditionally accepting and non-judgmental??? Really, ya think? I'm far from a Bible literalist, but I couldn't reach those conclusions if I read the Bible backwards and upside-down while chewing peyote buttons and chanting Om Mani Padme Hum (as I often do, just for the sheer challenge of it).
Once again I point out, because this is theoretically a thread about Mormonism: The Mormons don't even vaguely agree with your theology! But you are so obsessive and one-dimensional that you can't resist flogging your dead horse one more time.
In any event, I'm not following you any deeper down this rabbit hole, on this thread or elsewhere. Can't you find some new shtick, some new theological wrinkle, that is at least mildly interesting?
Talk about needing some new theological wrinkle, your wrathful theology is about as old, primitive, and barbaric as it gets. Sad that so few have evolved and matured beyond the savage barbarity of our ancestors' primitive mindsets and beliefs about God.
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, we are barely capable of overcoming our basest carnality. To expect a spiritual renaissance is stretching hope and faith seemingly beyond even the grasp of Jesus's unambiguous infinite agape love and forgiveness.
You realize my statement was that I learned directly FROM Catholic radio, right? And it was stuff that we didn't actually hear in church. The usual Sunday morning Mass doesn't really talk about a lot of the deeper stuff of Catholic doctrine. It's assumed that one already understands it. Likewise, I think a lot of other religions/denominations assume that.
Then I suggest you do the same when trying to understand Mormonism. On October 2 and 3, a semi-annual Conference is going to be held in which over 30 LDS leaders speak on the doctrines of Mormonism. You can stream it as it takes place or find it online afterwards. You would probably be surprised at how uplifting it is and how little you would likely find to be critical of.
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It's amazing how many times I've heard a Mormon missionary tell me that they had never heard of stuff like men becoming gods, even though Joseph Smith taught it.
And did you ever stop to wonder why? Did you ever ask yourself why they'd never heard of it? If you had, the thought might have occurred to you that maybe it was because we don't focus on it anywhere near as much as our critics do. We attend church each week and receive what you'd probably call either communion or the Lord's Supper. We sing hymns glorifying God. We hear sermons about how to be better people, not sermons about how to avoid hellfire and damnation. We DON'T hear sermons about becoming gods. As a matter of fact, in my 73 years as a Mormon, I've never heard one single sermon on that subject. And when we go home, we try to put into effect the lessons we've learned in church.
Sooner or later, virtually all Mormons become aware of Joseph Smith's teachings on the subject of deification. By the time they do, they have a very good understanding of the context in which he taught what he did. We see nothing wrong with the idea that children of God can ultimately become like their Father. After all, we know that Adam and Eve took the first step towards being like God when they came to understand the difference between good and evil. God himself said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, knowing good and evil." Jesus taught us to "be perfect, even as [our] Father which is in Heaven is perfect," and we take that to heart. We believe that's what God wants for us.
In Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 we are taught that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations. Now you may have a different take on what those verses mean than we do, but we do believe that the Bible tells us what the future holds for those who want to attain it.
You and others like you have built a mountain out of a molehill, and there's really no other way to put it.
Then I suggest you do the same when trying to understand Mormonism. On October 2 and 3, a semi-annual Conference is going to be held in which over 30 LDS leaders speak on the doctrines of Mormonism. You can stream it as it takes place or find it online afterwards. You would probably be surprised at how uplifting it is and how little you would likely find to be critical of.
I linked to a document from an LDS university, of teachings of your church's founder. I also have read the BoM, and have read through a book that was written by one of your late church's presidents in the 90's. I recall actually outlining it as I went. I wish I still had that. I borrowed the book from a coworker that was LDS.
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And did you ever stop to wonder why? Did you ever ask yourself why they'd never heard of it? If you had, the thought might have occurred to you that maybe it was because we don't focus on it anywhere near as much as our critics do. We attend church each week and receive what you'd probably call either communion or the Lord's Supper. We sing hymns glorifying God. We hear sermons about how to be better people, not sermons about how to avoid hellfire and damnation. We DON'T hear sermons about becoming gods. As a matter of fact, in my 73 years as a Mormon, I've never heard one single sermon on that subject. And when we go home, we try to put into effect the lessons we've learned in church.
If it was taught once...was it true? Why would one not want to teach truth? I realize that it is not a focus. But is it TRUE?
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Sooner or later, virtually all Mormons become aware of Joseph Smith's teachings on the subject of deification. By the time they do, they have a very good understanding of the context in which he taught what he did. We see nothing wrong with the idea that children of God can ultimately become like their Father. After all, we know that Adam and Eve took the first step towards being like God when they came to understand the difference between good and evil. God himself said, "Behold, the man is become as one of us, knowing good and evil." Jesus taught us to "be perfect, even as [our] Father which is in Heaven is perfect," and we take that to heart. We believe that's what God wants for us.
Historically, the Christian church has seen it as a bad thing that sin entered the world. When Adam and Eve sinned, this was bad. It wasn't good. But again, this is just one of those differences.
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In Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 we are taught that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations. Now you may have a different take on what those verses mean than we do, but we do believe that the Bible tells us what the future holds for those who want to attain it.
You and others like you have built a mountain out of a molehill, and there's really no other way to put it.
You seem to want to brush off what are major differences of teaching.
I linked to a document from an LDS university, of teachings of your church's founder. I also have read the BoM, and have read through a book that was written by one of your late church's presidents in the 90's. I recall actually outlining it as I went. I wish I still had that. I borrowed the book from a coworker that was LDS.
What? You want a medal or something?
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If it was taught once...was it true? Why would one not want to teach truth? I realize that it is not a focus. But is it TRUE?
I believe it is, and the Bible seems to support it.
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Historically, the Christian church has seen it as a bad thing that sin entered the world. When Adam and Eve sinned, this was bad. It wasn't good. But again, this is just one of those differences.
Did I say somewhere that sin was good? No, I didn't. I merely quoted God himself who noted that Adam and Eve had become "like us" [i.e., godlike] in that they had learned to tell the difference between good and evil. I can't help it if my church has a deeper understanding of the purpose of life than yours does.
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You seem to want to brush off what are major differences of teaching.
That's absurd. I never "brush off" any seriously inquiries as to what LDS doctrine is. I just don't like it when people just won't let up once I've taken the time to explain it. I said at the very beginning of this thread that we believe that God has given men both the potential and the commandment to become like him. What more could I have done to satisfy you?
Come on now, be fair. You said to get it from first-hand LDS sources. I did. That's my point. I wasn't trying to be snarky.
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I believe it is, and the Bible seems to support it.
We can disagree about the Biblical support, but ok.
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Did I say somewhere that sin was good? No, I didn't. I merely quoted God himself who noted that Adam and Eve had become "like us" [i.e., godlike] in that they had learned to tell the difference between good and evil. I can't help it if my church has a deeper understanding of the purpose of life than yours does.
The thing is, the net result of Adam and Eve gaining that understanding was sin entering the world. That's a big deal. Them eating of the fruit was not a good thing. It was disobedience. So when you say that they "became like God" by it, it wasn't portrayed as a good thing.
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That's absurd. I never "brush off" any seriously inquiries as to what LDS doctrine is. I just don't like it when people just won't let up once I've taken the time to explain it. I said at the very beginning of this thread that we believe that God has given men both the potential and the commandment to become like him. What more could I have done to satisfy you?
I believe the Bible teaches a Trinitarian view of God. You don't. That's a MAJOR issue that you seem to want to brush off.
My point really, though, was the idea that I think the LDS church is de-emphasizing major things. You've kind of alluded to it, yourself, when you say that it isn't focused on.
In any event, I really don't want you to feel that this is me just trying to bash on you or your church, so we'll call it quits here unless you wish to continue.
In any event, I really don't want you to feel that this is me just trying to bash on you or your church, so we'll call it quits here unless you wish to continue.
Sorry, but I don't buy that, but I'm totally okay with calling it quits.
Any insight would be greatly appreciated! I've tried a lot of different churches and this one just has a very strong presence of the Holy Spirit. Would love some advice...
I've decided that I'm really just kind of dense sometimes. It took me several days to finally conclude that this thread is the work of a troll. You got me, Nabors (but I'm still glad you started the thread because it gave me the chance to clear up a few misconceptions).
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The Jesus of the NT is unconditionally accepting and non-judgmental??? 
You got me, Nabors (but I'm still glad you started the thread because it gave me the chance to clear up a few misconceptions).
