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If you are incapable of accepting a properly documented source, in this case, Joseph Smith and the Mormon D & C, then that's your issue. The quote is cited properly. She asked for documentation, I gave it. Her own church's founder said it.
Having said that, you've demonstrated a disdain for Conservative Christianity, does that make you an "unreliable source"?
No, the quote is not cited properly. Joseph Smith never made the statement attributed to him. That's something you can check for yourself. Matt Slick seems to think he can put his own words in quotes and credit someone else with making the statement. It doesn't work that way.
At any rate, neither Joseph Smith nor any other Mormon leader has ever said anything about men getting their own planet. And just to make things absolutely clear, if my husband were ever to get his own planet, he'd be sharing it with me! I'm going to be in charge of all planets in our household. Furthermore, we wouldn't settle for some stupid hand-me-down planet. We'd go create our own. What god and goddess wouldn't?
Many matters with that "church" are hard to hide, so it shouldn't be difficult for the red flags to come into view.
Why is the word "church" is quotes, may I ask? Is the word "church" in some way misleading? And what red flags would you like to discuss? That all sounds quite omininous. At any rate, since they're so blatant, we might as well examine them.
It goes without saying that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has at times whitewashed its history -- as has every other church. It is also a matter of fact that a great deal about what has been written about my church by people on the outside looking in has come from a very negative bias and is not the slightest bit objective.
Can you address what I posted? I'd love to see your take on it.
I already did.
Quote:
Having said that, I honestly don't care what CS Lewis, Irenaeus, or any of the other "Early Church Fathers" said. Their writings are not Scripture, and they are not authoritative. I don't mean to be snarky, but they just are not used to make doctrine. You're not going to see me quote from them as if they are Scripture.
Of course you don't. As you have pointed out, their writings are not authoritative. You are, however, entirely willing to see any statement written by any Latter-day Saint leader as being an "authoritative" statement on what Mormon doctrine is. Are you going to tell me that you don't see the problem there?
Besides, my point in posting what numerous other notable Christians, from the early Church fathers to C.S. Lewis have said was not to prove that LDS doctrine is correct (even though I believe it to be). If that's what you thought, you missed my point entirely. I would just like to know why you and others feel it's entirely acceptable to embellish LDS statements (adding to them things like, "Mormons believe that they will get their own planet after they die") when nobody makes the same claims about Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Augustine, C.S. Lewis or anybody else. I'm simply pointing out a double standard here -- one which I strongly suspect you will ignore as you always do.
Many matters with that "church" are hard to hide, so it shouldn't be difficult for the red flags to come into view.
All churches have red flags about them. But like most religions, the everyday LDS people are wonderful people and Katz is an excellent example and source of information about them and their doctrine.
If you believe I'm being less than honest, you can easily check for yourself. The Teachings of Joseph Smith can be found online. Matt Slick could have done so just as easily, but evidently wasn't striving for accuracy.
This volume of writings, incidentally, has never been canonized, which means that while Joseph Smith may have said certain things, they are not doctrinally binding upon members of the Church.
Both of these statements are accurate quotes.
That first quote came from the King Follett Sermon by Joseph Smith.
Of course, the Baptist may feel that his Pastors Sermons are binding?
That first quote came from the King Follett Sermon by Joseph Smith.
Interesting thing about the King Follett Discourse... It was actually a funeral sermon Joseph Smith gave in 1844. While it is not doctrinally binding on the Church's membership, most members of the Church would almost certainly agree with much of it.
Katz is an excellent example and source of information about them and their doctrine.
Thank you for the compliment, Mystic. The funny thing is that a lot of people on City-Data who haven't interacted with me all that much just assume I'm always going to take the role of the LDS apologist, which is just not the case. The fact that I describe myself as "not your average Mormon" should be a clue to folks that I call things as I see them. If I disagree with my church's leadership on some policy or another, as is frequently the case, I will speak out. If someone posts something about the Church that is not flattering, but which is undeniably true, I will acknowledge it. But what I won't do is tolerate misinformation deliberately spread by people who simply have no desire to get their facts straight. And that's why I consider myself a legitimately reliable and honest source of information about Mormonism.
Interesting thing about the King Follett Discourse... It was actually a funeral sermon Joseph Smith gave in 1844. While it is not doctrinally binding on the Church's membership, most members of the Church would almost certainly agree with much of it.
I didn't see anything about owning real estate in outer space, however the Scriptures do speak to that of the heavens will be ours.
I didn't see anything about owning real estate in outer space, however the Scriptures do speak to that of the heavens will be ours.
According to my understanding of consciousness, that is where we actually already reside!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur
Just read between the lines, son. You can find anything if you just look hard enough!
That would be read at the really tiny quantum level (think Lilliputian world). If we think that what we see is infinite at the macro level when over 95% of it is at the micro-level, imagine how much real estate that could contain???
Last edited by MysticPhD; 09-21-2021 at 08:12 PM..
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Just read between the lines, son. You can find anything if you just look hard enough!
