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My intellect says you are right, Meerkat, but my spirit detests the evil that dominates. Forgiving willful evil and enemies are still beyond the reach of my agape love and forgiveness. I am no Jesus.
As does mine
I’m not sure all evil that happens is wilful, some is from retaliation, ignorance, peer pressure, etc
Any wilful evil is not to be forgiven though, those who are damaged by it are due a recompense in due time
It depends on the motivation
It’s those sincerely repenting that are to be forgiven I think
Sorry guys ...I know what it means. I just wasn't seeing much of it displayed on this thread, especially by those who lay claim to the term. Pedophilia has been diagnosed as a mental disorder. Perhaps general recognition and a 'treatment program' should be encouraged rather than 'payback'. Society at large would benefit from this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by highway54
I fail to see the connection Rom, pedophilia is not love by any means sir
I never said that pedophilia was 'love'. I was referring to the majority of responses on this thread.
I'm always reluctant to involve myself in a subject such as this one since it's so highly emotionally charged that any semblance of reason becomes nonexistent. The hatred that is spewed from most is depressing. All I will say is that pedophilia is a mental health issue and "hang 'em" or "give 'em a bullet" as 'a cure' doesn't sit well with me personally. And, it's this kind of response that is coming from those who allegedly aspire to Jesus' example of 'agape love'. Pedophiles were once children themselves. Some of the children of today will become the pedophiles of tomorrow. They may even be your children. If we could know who they were would we still want to string them up or give them the bullet?
Child abuse is not a matter for any church to deal with. If you know of a case and don't report it to the authorities, you should be charged as an accessory after the fact. You could be charged with conspiracy to conceal a crime. Abetting criminal behavior is about as un-Christian as a person can get.
Gross sin including child abuse is a matter for a church to deal with. What good is it to have a church where it's members aren't held accountable to walk the talk. If one makes a dedication to have good morals then follow through. If the member doesn't want to change then the individual should find a different church that doesn't expect much from it's members.
Remember, Jehovah's Witnesses are among the few organizations that have an internal ecclesiastical process to deal with members accused of child abuse. The policy does not in any way stop anyone from reporting suspected child abuse. Why keep ignore the hundreds of cases that were reported by the organization? Even in those cases hundreds did not result in any conviction but they were still reported.
In reality both the church (assuming that the perp identifies with a church) and police should deal with it. What's interesting, however, is the State is using it's judicial/legal powers to take what is meant as an internal process for determining if a member should remain part of the church. Then, accusing the church of institutionalized child abuse because it's ecclesiastical policy of disciplining its members was flawed or could be improved. Imagine then the majority of organizations that don't have a process to deal with its members accused of child abuse. I suppose a church would rather not have such a policy. They could shrug off the issue and say we don't have a problem, others do.
I'd go one step further and make mandatory reporting of sexual abuse universal.
Gross sin including child abuse is a matter for a church to deal with. What good is it to have a church where it's members aren't held accountable to walk the talk. If one makes a dedication to have good morals then follow through. If the member doesn't want to change then the individual should find a different church that doesn't expect much from it's members.
Remember, Jehovah's Witnesses are among the few organizations that have an internal ecclesiastical process to deal with members accused of child abuse. The policy does not in any way stop anyone from reporting suspected child abuse. Why keep ignore the hundreds of cases that were reported by the organization? Even in those cases hundreds did not result in any conviction but they were still reported.
In reality both the church (assuming that the perp identifies with a church) and police should deal with it. What's interesting, however, is the State is using it's judicial/legal powers to take what is meant as an internal process for determining if a member should remain part of the church. Then, accusing the church of institutionalized child abuse because it's ecclesiastical policy of disciplining its members was flawed or could be improved. Imagine then the majority of organizations that don't have a process to deal with its members accused of child abuse. I suppose a church would rather not have such a policy. They could shrug off the issue and say we don't have a problem, others do.
I'd go one step further and make mandatory reporting of sexual abuse universal.
That ecclesiastical process is big a problem. Do you know what it is? It's a judicial committee with three elders to determine if the persons involved are guilty of wrongdoing. That includes the victim. It puts the victim in the same room as the accused. Traumatizing questions are asked by men with no training and a bias toward this being a sin some poor brother committed. In one of those cases from the Australian Royal Commission, one of the elders of the three WAS the accused and he got to question the victim. There is a case going on now where the elders played the audio of the rape to the minor girl as the rapist taped it. They were trying to determine if she enjoyed it as was culpable. There is another case involving a minor male where both he and the woman who raped him were disfellowshipped. It came to the attention of the authorities and she was charged.
This process is seen as far superior to Satan's secular authorities. The elders have the guidance of the Holy Spirit and that's way better than any court of law in Satan's system. Also going to the authorities brings reproach on Jehovah's name and is "dragging Jehovah's name through the mud." That's a real saying inside the organization. It's all about appearance. If there is no confession and no second witness it is to be left in Jehovah's hands and do nothing.
Most churches don't do this with victims and for good reason.
Gross sin including child abuse is a matter for a church to deal with. What good is it to have a church where it's members aren't held accountable to walk the talk. If one makes a dedication to have good morals then follow through. If the member doesn't want to change then the individual should find a different church that doesn't expect much from it's members.
Remember, Jehovah's Witnesses are among the few organizations that have an internal ecclesiastical process to deal with members accused of child abuse. The policy does not in any way stop anyone from reporting suspected child abuse. Why keep ignore the hundreds of cases that were reported by the organization? Even in those cases hundreds did not result in any conviction but they were still reported.
In reality both the church (assuming that the perp identifies with a church) and police should deal with it. What's interesting, however, is the State is using it's judicial/legal powers to take what is meant as an internal process for determining if a member should remain part of the church. Then, accusing the church of institutionalized child abuse because it's ecclesiastical policy of disciplining its members was flawed or could be improved. Imagine then the majority of organizations that don't have a process to deal with its members accused of child abuse. I suppose a church would rather not have such a policy. They could shrug off the issue and say we don't have a problem, others do.
I'd go one step further and make mandatory reporting of sexual abuse universal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
That ecclesiastical process is big a problem. Do you know what it is? It's a judicial committee with three elders to determine if the persons involved are guilty of wrongdoing. That includes the victim. It puts the victim in the same room as the accused. Traumatizing questions are asked by men with no training and a bias toward this being a sin some poor brother committed. In one of those cases from the Australian Royal Commission, one of the elders of the three WAS the accused and he got to question the victim. There is a case going on now where the elders played the audio of the rape to the minor girl as the rapist taped it. They were trying to determine if she enjoyed it as was culpable. There is another case involving a minor male where both he and the woman who raped him were disfellowshipped. It came to the attention of the authorities and she was charged.
This process is seen as far superior to Satan's secular authorities. The elders have the guidance of the Holy Spirit and that's way better than any court of law in Satan's system. Also going to the authorities brings reproach on Jehovah's name and is "dragging Jehovah's name through the mud." That's a real saying inside the organization. It's all about appearance. If there is no confession and no second witness it is to be left in Jehovah's hands and do nothing.
Most churches don't do this with victims and for good reason.
The Jehovah Witness Organization does not report abuses, if they believe than can avoid it. In simple terms, they cause more harm to the victims with their bogus two-witness rule. And, no, your elders have not the guidance of a holy spirit, when they require the victim to give them a "play by play" of the encounter. They are not victim advocates, and have no specialized training. Remember, according to you, they are merely volunteers - no different than any other person off the street.
The Jehovah Witness Organization does not report abuses, if they believe than can avoid it. In simple terms, they cause more harm to the victims with their bogus two-witness rule. And, no, your elders have not the guidance of a holy spirit, when they require the victim to give them a "play by play" of the encounter. They are not victim advocates, and have no specialized training. Remember, according to you, they are merely volunteers - no different than any other person off the street.
The Jehovah Witness Organization does not report abuses, if they believe they can avoid it. In simple terms, they cause more harm to the victims with their bogus two-witness rule. And, no, their elders have not the guidance of a holy spirit, when they require the victim to give them a "play by play" of the encounter. They are not victim advocates, and have no specialized training. Remember, according to you (Hd4me), they are merely volunteers - no different than any other person off the street.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
It is well and truly an evil organization, Jer!
I would say, uneducated and ignorant, professing themselves to be wise - they became foolish in their thinking.
LOL millions of people have been killed in the name of god. Wait -- I'm hearing a message-- "Go run over Highway 54 because he is debasing the world's gene pool" What if every criminal said
"I follow God's laws, if you don't like them, take it up with Him" What a sorry copout Please post your name and address so I can send some " religious" criminals by your house- our prisons are full of "born again" types.
Not a cop out at all, simple fact. Do I do it perfectly, no, but I work hard at it. So let me ask you, what does God require of you that you think is so God awful that you are willing to sacrifice your everlasting life for it?
People can profess their beliefs all they want and point at Bible verses all day long, but that is meaningless when weighed against acts of evil that they ignore and in many cases condone. If you use the Bible as proof it’s ok to ignore terrible crimes, then either your religion or the Bible are very flawed.
I never said that pedophilia was 'love'. I was referring to the majority of responses on this thread.
I'm always reluctant to involve myself in a subject such as this one since it's so highly emotionally charged that any semblance of reason becomes nonexistent. The hatred that is spewed from most is depressing. All I will say is that pedophilia is a mental health issue and "hang 'em" or "give 'em a bullet" as 'a cure' doesn't sit well with me personally. And, it's this kind of response that is coming from those who allegedly aspire to Jesus' example of 'agape love'. Pedophiles were once children themselves. Some of the children of today will become the pedophiles of tomorrow. They may even be your children. If we could know who they were would we still want to string them up or give them the bullet?
When I accepted becoming a disciple of Christ, I knew that would lead to many controversial discussions with those who do not love God. Jesus himself stated that even those of our own household might become our enemies, which happened to me as well. However, Christians do not stick their heads in the sand Rom, we sometimes have to bite the bullet and speak up when people belie God. I personally think God's laws are best, and no one to date has ever convinced me otherwise. Ignorance is rampant among people as most people voicing opinions in this thread are in agreement, that God does not accept pedophiles, yet they choose for some reason to act like He is. Go figure huh? I guess it has to do with honesty, or simply a desire to disagree with others, even if you don't.
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