With thousands of pedophile priest cases is the excuse "God works in mysterious ways" the best answer? (zealous, Bible)
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Yeah, he is still a Catholic, personally, you get caught red handed with a child, it should be a bullet to the head the very next day.
Having said that, dude is still a Catholic, why wouldnt he be still a Catholic? There are evil people in every religion
You have some kind of list of sins that if Catholics breaks, he is no longer a Catholic?
What about the murderer, the adulterer and the sexual immoral?
These also bring death by the law.
So what sins can a Catholic commit and still be a Catholic?
Jesus said if you are angry with your neighbor,you are a murderer, he said if you lust after a woman, you are an adulterer or a person who is committing immoral sex.
Immoral sex is immoral sex .
If somebody can be kicked out of the Catholic church then let everyone be judged accordingly and there wouldnt be anyone left in the Catholic church.
If a person believes himself to be a Catholic, it wouldnt matter what the church said anyway, he remains a Catholic.
We put them out from among us, those who do not practice the faith. The fact is fruits identify Christians, you are saying in essence satan is one of God's people, those who sin seriously have left the faith.
There is no excuse. It is good old fashion corruption.
Homosexual infiltration of the church. Communist infiltration of the church.
Pedophiles like "trusted" positions of power around children which is why they become teachers and priests and day care providers. Thats is where the kids are. Thats is where they go to prey on them.
The real inexcusable part is how the church didn't banish these criminals immediately upon first discovery. It was the moving them around, hiding them, coddling them, keeping them, allowing them to continue to prey on innocent children. That is the real disaster of it. If the church had immediately and forcefully outted them and saw they went to prison, fewer would make the attempt.
Pedophile priests saw that there was no risk in getting caught. You would just be moved to another parish to continue your depraved crimes. The church was their enabler. Talk about corruption.
We put them out from among us, those who do not practice the faith. The fact is fruits identify Christians, you are saying in essence satan is one of God's people, those who sin seriously have left the faith.
No, what I say is that evil dwells within all men and we have all been found guilty of murder and immoral sex, again, Jesus said if you get angry with brother, it's the same as murder, and if you lust, it's the same as immoral sex
When the son of lawlessness will he revealed in all people, it is Rosh Hashanah where you get cut in half and the goat will go from you if you are a sheep.
All the law does is to teach love and mercy and thats what Jesus said because he knew from the law that if you get angry with your neighbor, you are a murderer.
Jesus said this because he knew just how much the law actually convicted.
The law has all of us dead before we hit 13, and it is so redundantly convicting that if you know the law, you have convicted yourself, and it is in self conviction that you find mercy for everyone else because you know how convicted you are, all it does is teach mercy and forgiveness when you actually walk in the law and prophets
My point is that all of us are found wanting under the law and we all deserve death, and there is absolutely nothing we could do to get death off our heads.
I mean that was the whole point of Jesus coming, because it was simply impossible for us to have followed the law to save our own selves?
Did Jesus just stand for just your sins or the sins of the world?
If just one person was very evil, he is just showing the propensity we all have for evil.
I dont.even think the pedophiles go to some hell.
Maybe in their next life they will be the opposite, and it says that EVERY MAN will be tested by standing in the lake of fire to see if they can stand in the fire as Meshack, Shadrac and Abendego who didnt burn in the flames.
Even so, it says that even those who are tested by flames and WHO BURN, EVEN THEY WILL BE SAVED, who am I to say different
Pedophilia is not a problem. Most of the victims are/were teen age boys. Homosexual predation is the problem. Try to find many cases where the priest went after a 4 year old, 14 quite often, but 4 hardly ever.
I am only aware of one Bishop that ever announced that any law enforcement agency is welcome to see their files. That Bishop is now deceased.
Celibacy isn't the reason. Many priests have left the Church due to celibacy. They married women. A parish priest is surrounded by women. If he wanted one they are available. No one that wants a women goes after a teenage boy.
The blame falls on the Pope and all of the previous Popes. They knew what was going on and refused to act on it.
There was a very popular priest where I used to live. Never a rumor let alone an accusation. When he died some people pointed something out. He did not abuse anyone but did he know any that did and refuse to say anything? Hard to believe anyone who was a Priest for about 60 years did not know what was going on when there were many cases in the diocese he served in.
I believe we go overboard the opposite way, I disagree as the Bible states that there must be at least two witnesses, however our elders are to contact the authorities if an allegation of abuse is reported to them. You are from your father sir
Your organization hides behind the Bible to cover up sexual abuse, a crime that has nothing to do with the Bible. You are using the two witness rule to allow criminals in your organization to escape criminal justice, and you seem to be proud of it.
Once pedophile priests were identified by the church, they had a moral obligation to notify law enforcement. Instead they chose to keep the crime a secret and just move the offender. Often times more children were abused because of this. So an organization that is suppose to guide people morally, failed it's own test.
What troubles me is the extent of the abuse. It's not a coincidence that huge numbers of pedophiles, over many decades, decided to become priests. I'm sure this deviant underbelly found out the best way to satisfy their perversion was to enter the RCC clergy.
Many will argue that other organizations had the same issue. But none had it to the extent as the catholic church. It happened worldwide by possibly tens of thousands of abusers. And many never faced the criminal justice system for their crimes.
The RCC was/is a pedo magnet. They are still uncovering abusers today. Sad to imagine the number of lives these predators have ruined.
Is that why your Organization covers up sexual abuse of children, as well as the Catholic Church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by highway54
I believe we go overboard the opposite way, I disagree as the Bible states that there must be at least two witnesses, however our elders are to contact the authorities if an allegation of abuse is reported to them. You are from your father sir
Is that why your Jehovah Witness Organization, despite court orders, paid a daily fine amounting to millions of dollars over the years, so they didn't have to reveal their list or secret database of accused pedophiles/predators. Most of which have never been shared with law enforcement. Now, who is it that you are you serving, Highway54 - the devil you say?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Your organization hides behind the Bible to cover up sexual abuse, a crime that has nothing to do with the Bible. You are using the two witness rule to allow criminals in your organization to escape criminal justice, and you seem to be proud of it.
It makes you wonder why he is so supportive, while he, himself has been disfellowshipped?
People are sinners, but you cannot blame the Catholic faith, as they teach that to be an unacceptable practice. Obviously if a Catholic is doing that, then he really isn't a Catholic is he, his fruits has shown what he actually is.
True. We may call ourselves whatever we'd like but each of us is individually responsible for our conduct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerwade
Is that why your Organization covers up sexual abuse of children, as well as the Catholic Church?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy
Your organization hides behind the Bible to cover up sexual abuse, a crime that has nothing to do with the Bible. You are using the two witness rule to allow criminals in your organization to escape criminal justice, and you seem to be proud of it.
I'm a JW with kids. I'm not alone when I say there is enormous sympathy for any child anywhere that has been abused. I hope that each one finds the peace that they seek and the justice that they deserve.
The accusation that our organization covers up sexual abuse is not true. For example, the Royal Commission in Australia were provided 1,006 case files by JWs. Of those, 383 had been reported to the police at the time they had happened which resulted in 161 convictions. Obviously, cases were brought to justice and those regarded as credible resulted in convictions.
The two witness rule is ONLY for ecclesiastical purposes. It does NOT extend in any way how a JW should interact with secular authorities. Sexual abuse is a violation not only of secular laws but God's laws. Secular authorities establish the culpability of the accused in relation to whatever laws of the land exist and not religious authorities. No one would expect the justice system to also establish how the accused has violated God's laws. Otherwise, we become a theocratic state like Saudi Arabia, Iran and now add Afghanistan to the list. On the other hand, there are religious organizations who don't hold their members accountable. There are also organizations who expel a person based on hearsay. I would think that an organization that considers itself Christian and views the Bible as a book of faith would attempt to apply Bible principles in how they arrive at ecclesiastical decisions. It's not a perfect world and things don't always come out perfect but that doesn't mean application shouldn't be made as best as can be made.
I might add I was born and raised a Catholic and it's no secret there are those who just seek to smear one's faith. It's not to say that there isn't truth in what some post. It doesn't mean organizations can't make improvements on serious issues like this. But, you can expect truth/facts to be twisted by some.
True. We may call ourselves whatever we'd like but each of us is individually responsible for our conduct.
I'm a JW with kids. I'm not alone when I say there is enormous sympathy for any child anywhere that has been abused. I hope that each one finds the peace that they seek and the justice that they deserve.
The accusation that our organization covers up sexual abuse is not true. For example, the Royal Commission in Australia were provided 1,006 case files by JWs. Of those, 383 had been reported to the police at the time they had happened which resulted in 161 convictions. Obviously, cases were brought to justice and those regarded as credible resulted in convictions.
The two witness rule is ONLY for ecclesiastical purposes. It does NOT extend in any way how a JW should interact with secular authorities. Sexual abuse is a violation not only of secular laws but God's laws. Secular authorities establish the culpability of the accused in relation to whatever laws of the land exist and not religious authorities. No one would expect the justice system to also establish how the accused has violated God's laws. Otherwise, we become a theocratic state like Saudi Arabia, Iran and now add Afghanistan to the list. On the other hand, there are religious organizations who don't hold their members accountable. There are also organizations who expel a person based on hearsay. I would think that an organization that considers itself Christian and views the Bible as a book of faith would attempt to apply Bible principles in how they arrive at ecclesiastical decisions. It's not a perfect world and things don't always come out perfect but that doesn't mean application shouldn't be made as best as can be made.
I might add I was born and raised a Catholic and it's no secret there are those who just seek to smear one's faith. It's not to say that there isn't truth in what some post. It doesn't mean organizations can't make improvements on serious issues like this. But, you can expect truth/facts to be twisted by some.
I watched that whole thing when it came out. The entire proceedings are online if you care to watch it. There is a lot more going on than just the two-witness rule. I specifically remember Angus Stewart asking one of the elders if any of those had been reported to secular authorities and the answer was no. I don't feel like digging it up but here is an article from then stating the same thing. I will run a search with your information but it would be nice if you would include a link so people could examine the source. I don't know if that means someone eventually called the police on them or not. Here is the magazine article.
Although the position is not clear in relation to a few files, there is otherwise no evidence before the
Royal Commission of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation having reported to police or other secular
authority a single one of the 1,006 alleged perpetrators of child sexual abuse recorded in the case
files held by Watchtower Australia.545
No witness appearing on behalf of the Jehovah’s Witness organisation could identify an instance of
the organisation reporting an allegation of child sexual abuse to the police or other authorities.546
Mr Spinks said that ‘we are not going to at any point suggest that we have telephoned the
authorities or have instructed elders to do that’.547
A letter in evidence before the Royal Commission shows that Watchtower Australia’s own review of
the 1,006 case files established that ‘383 alleged perpetrators had been dealt with by either police
or secular authorities in the respective States or Territories in which they reside’.548 That letter did
not describe or otherwise suggest that the Jehovah’s Witness organisation had an active role in
bringing allegations against the 383 identified perpetrators to the attention of secular authorities.
Furthermore, Mr Toole did not dispute that Watchtower Australia’s review of the case files may have
yielded some false positive results. That is, it is possible that some of the 383 identified case files
may have contained reference to but not had the involvement of the authorities.549
Similarly, the case files record that 161 of the alleged perpetrators recorded in the files had been
convicted of a child sexual abuse offence.550 It is not possible to conclude on the basis of this data
that any of those convictions came about because of reports to the authorities by the Jehovah’s
Witness organisation. What this data does suggest is that, although the Jehovah’s Witness
organisation did not report allegations against those 161 offenders to the authorities, the offenders
had nonetheless come to the attention of police
Edit: I see the link I posted goes straight to the full report. Page 60 is where I posted from.
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