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So..he gives us faith to believe...but not faith to believe. Ok. Sure.
God also desires that none should sin. Do you believe that? Or do you believe his logic is flawed?
No, I am not incorrect.
Address this question. Don't ignore it like you've been doing. Address it. Why if faith is a gift from God does God not give everyone the faith to believe so they can be saved since he desires that no one perish and that all be saved? It's a simple enough question so answer it.
And as for Ephesians 2:8-9, faith is not the gift, salvation is. This is addressed in the two links below.
Address this question. Don't ignore it like you've been doing. Address it. Why if faith is a gift from God does God not give everyone the faith to believe so they can be saved since he desires that no one perish and that all be saved? It's a simple enough question so answer it.
How can anyone answer that? No one knows the mind of God.
Why didn't Jesus go to Tyre and Sidon and perform miracles there if it would have caused them to repent as He said (Matthew 11:21)?
Each will be judged according to what he has been given.
If one is not given the gift of faith, he will be judged according to his culpability.
If one is given a gift of great faith, he will be judged according to that.
To whom much is given, much will be required.
The inverse of that is that to whom little is given, little is required.
Address this question. Don't ignore it like you've been doing. Address it. Why if faith is a gift from God does God not give everyone the faith to believe so they can be saved since he desires that no one perish and that all be saved? It's a simple enough question so answer it.
And as for Ephesians 2:8-9, faith is not the gift, salvation is. This is addressed in the two links below.
He doesn't give it to everyone because he's Sovereign and can choose to do what he wants with his creation. He chooses to elect some to salvation, and grants them faith.
That's why I asked you why you believe people sin, despite the fact that God clearly doesn't want us to. Were you going to answer that question? Or were you going to continue to ignore it?
You seem to think that God has to give everyone completely equal chances to repent, and that he is like a middle school girl sitting at a dance waiting to be asked to dance. But he's sovereign and he will save those whom he wants. That's why Jesus said no one comes to faith unless they are drawn by the Father.
Address this question. Don't ignore it like you've been doing. Address it. Why if faith is a gift from God does God not give everyone the faith to believe so they can be saved since he desires that no one perish and that all be saved? It's a simple enough question so answer it.
And as for Ephesians 2:8-9, faith is not the gift, salvation is. This is addressed in the two links below.
How can anyone answer that? No one knows the mind of God.
Why didn't Jesus go to Tyre and Sidon and perform miracles there if it would have caused them to repent as He said (Matthew 11:21)?
Each will be judged according to what he has been given.
If one is not given the gift of faith, he will be judged according to his culpability.
If one is given a gift of great faith, he will be judged according to that.
To whom much is given, much will be required.
The inverse of that is that to whom little is given, little is required.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BaptistFundie
He doesn't give it to everyone because he's Sovereign and can choose to do what he wants with his creation. He chooses to elect some to salvation, and grants them faith.
That's why I asked you why you believe people sin, despite the fact that God clearly doesn't want us to. Were you going to answer that question? Or were you going to continue to ignore it?
You seem to think that God has to give everyone completely equal chances to repent, and that he is like a middle school girl sitting at a dance waiting to be asked to dance. But he's sovereign and he will save those whom he wants. That's why Jesus said no one comes to faith unless they are drawn by the Father.
That is correct
He does not give to everyone equally which is where headship comes in .... and those that are greater have much greater responsibilities and judgement
How can anyone answer that? No one knows the mind of God.
Why didn't Jesus go to Tyre and Sidon and perform miracles there if it would have caused them to repent as He said (Matthew 11:21)?
Each will be judged according to what he has been given.
If one is not given the gift of faith, he will be judged according to his culpability.
If one is given a gift of great faith, he will be judged according to that.
To whom much is given, much will be required.
The inverse of that is that to whom little is given, little is required.
The answer is that God does not give anyone the faith to believe so that they may be saved. Faith is a human response to the gospel message. A person either believes the gospel message or he doesn't.
The answer is that God does not give anyone the faith to believe so that they may be saved. Faith is a human response to the gospel message. A person either believes the gospel message or he doesn't.
Do you flat-out deny the existence of supernatural faith?
He doesn't give it to everyone because he's Sovereign and can choose to do what he wants with his creation. He chooses to elect some to salvation, and grants them faith.
That's why I asked you why you believe people sin, despite the fact that God clearly doesn't want us to. Were you going to answer that question? Or were you going to continue to ignore it?
You seem to think that God has to give everyone completely equal chances to repent, and that he is like a middle school girl sitting at a dance waiting to be asked to dance. But he's sovereign and he will save those whom he wants. That's why Jesus said no one comes to faith unless they are drawn by the Father.
Bull crap! If you believe the Bible, God does not desire that anyone perish but that all men be saved. Therefore, if faith was a gift from God he would give faith to everyone so that they could be saved. God draws through the gospel message. The Holy Spirit in his ministry of common grace makes the gospel understandable. The issue then is whether or not a person will accept the gospel message as true.
As for why people sin when God doesn't want us to, that is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Nor is election to salvation. Election pertains to what those who have been saved are elected to. Ultimately, being conformed to the image of Christ.
Calvinistic theology is all screwed up. It has God predestining some people to hell despite the fact that God doesn't want anyone to perish.
Do you flat-out deny the existence of supernatural faith?
Faith is faith is faith regardless of the object of faith. Faith in God is no different than faith in some person or some thing. A person can have faith in some person because he knows something about that person. A person can have faith that the chair he is about to sit on will not collapse because he knows the chair is sturdy.
And if you've read my other posts, you know that I said that Paul did talk about a spiritual gift of faith. But that faith was given to certain believers (they were already saved). It was not a reference to unbelievers being given faith to believe so that they could be saved.
Faith is faith is faith regardless of the object of faith. Faith in God is no different than faith in some person or some thing. A person can have faith in some person because he knows something about that person. A person can have faith that the chair he is about to sit on will not collapse because he knows the chair is sturdy.
And if you've read my other posts, you know that I said that Paul did talk about a spiritual gift of faith. But that faith was given to certain believers (they were already saved). It was not a reference to unbelievers being given faith to believe so that they could be saved.
Ok, thanks for clarifying. That explanation might give us something to build on.
A huge part of the conflict between Catholic and Protestant has to do with the definition of the word "faith" and what exactly it encompasses; so I sympathize with your point of view and it actually seems to me to be more in line with the Catholic viewpoint.
Bull crap! If you believe the Bible, God does not desire that anyone perish but that all men be saved.
Right. And he also hates sin and wishes none would sin. But we do. So what's your point?
Quote:
Therefore, if faith was a gift from God he would give faith to everyone so that they could be saved. God draws through the gospel message. The Holy Spirit in his ministry of common grace makes the gospel understandable. The issue then is whether or not a person will accept the gospel message as true.
Right. And God COULD simply cause for none of us to sin. But he doesn't. So again, what's your point?
Quote:
As for why people sin when God doesn't want us to, that is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Nor is election to salvation. Election pertains to what those who have been saved are elected to. Ultimately, being conformed to the image of Christ.
Calvinistic theology is all screwed up. It has God predestining some people to hell despite the fact that God doesn't want anyone to perish.
Not sure why you're so scared of Election for salvation. The Bible teaches it. God can and does do what he wants with his Creation. He is not subject to the whim of men.
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