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Ok, thanks for clarifying. That explanation might give us something to build on.
A huge part of the conflict between Catholic and Protestant has to do with the definition of the word "faith" and what exactly it encompasses; so I sympathize with your point of view and it actually seems to me to be more in line with the Catholic viewpoint.
How would you distinguish "faith" from "trust"?
I don't. I often use the term 'trust' in place of 'faith.'
Bull crap! If you believe the Bible, God does not desire that anyone perish but that all men be saved. Therefore, if faith was a gift from God he would give faith to everyone so that they could be saved. God draws through the gospel message. The Holy Spirit in his ministry of common grace makes the gospel understandable. The issue then is whether or not a person will accept the gospel message as true.
As for why people sin when God doesn't want us to, that is completely irrelevant to the issue at hand.
Nor is election to salvation. Election pertains to what those who have been saved are elected to. Ultimately, being conformed to the image of Christ.
Calvinistic theology is all screwed up. It has God predestining some people to hell despite the fact that God doesn't want anyone to perish.
This is where the layering and dimensionality comes in
I see a difference between the individual/multitudes and the systematic
Jesus was selective about who he gave his criticism to and it was not the multitudes or those oppressed by the religious minded who used the systems for their own benefit
We are definitely to be critical but we are also to approach things from a personally simple believing place
Right. And he also hates sin and wishes none would sin. But we do. So what's your point?
You're comparing two different things that have nothing to do with each other.
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Right. And God COULD simply cause for none of us to sin. But he doesn't. So again, what's your point?
Again, this is relevant to the issue at hand.
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Not sure why you're so scared of Election for salvation. The Bible teaches it. God can and does do what he wants with his Creation. He is not subject to the whim of men.
The Bible does not teach election for salvation. Again, election refers to what those who have been saved are elected to.
You have God choosing to send certain people to hell without regard to whether they or not they accept the gospel message even though the Bible tells us that God does not desire that anyone perish.
You're comparing two different things that have nothing to do with each other.
Again, this is relevant to the issue at hand.
The Bible does not teach election for salvation. Again, election refers to what those who have been saved are elected to.
You have God choosing to send certain people to hell without regard to whether they or not they accept the gospel message even though the Bible tells us that God does not desire that anyone perish.
That’s right
Election, calling, naming are all about the higher, assembly, systemic related things where there are duties and responsibilities pertaining to the kingdom and part of that is to “bond” and have “dominion” but with that there is also a need to be merciful and not oppressive of those you have taken into “bondage”
Children and Parents
Eph 6:1**Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Eph 6:2**Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise)
Eph 6:3**That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.
Eph 6:4**And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
Bondservants and Masters
Eph 6:5**Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
Eph 6:6**Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
Eph 6:7**With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
Eph 6:8**Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
Eph 6:9**And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.
Mat 6:9**After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Mat 6:10**Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11**Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12**And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13**And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Mat 6:14**For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15**But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Critical thinking will enable us to discern the reasonableness of beliefs ABOUT God but cannot assist in establishing the core belief IN God. That is where your train left the tracks, Irkle. You conflate belief IN God with the acceptance of specific beliefs ABOUT God. They are very different kinds of beliefs.
If you will reread my post, you will see that this is EXACTLY what I said. Perhaps your reading glasses were on the train that left the tracks?
How can anyone answer that? No one knows the mind of God.
But we DO have the "mind of Christ" as unambiguously revealed by Jesus on the Cross so we can infer a great many things as well as rule out a great many things. Why do you refuse to use the "mind of Christ" to test the truth of what is claimed to be from God or Jesus?
1st Corinthians 2:16 (King James Version)
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
If you will reread my post, you will see that this is EXACTLY what I said. Perhaps your reading glasses were on the train that left the tracks?
I was agreeing with you but also pointing out that your acceptance of the orthodox dogma seems to be predicated on your belief IN God but you seem to think it confirms your beliefs ABOUT God which it does NOT!!! You are accepting very primitive and ignorant beliefs ABOUT God just because you believe IN God.
I was agreeing with you but also pointing out that your acceptance of the orthodox dogma seems to be predicated on your belief IN God but you seem to think it confirms your beliefs ABOUT God which it does NOT!!! You are accepting very primitive and ignorant beliefs ABOUT God just because you believe IN God.
We all need space to be able to separate our personal perspectives and rights from our societal duties and responsibilities
Religion has a duality to it which has been embedded from the “beginning/Genesis” and there is a societal/collective responsibility and there was a need for adherents to be able to perform those duties
Future Glory
Rom 8:18**For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
Rom 8:19**For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Rom 8:20**For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
Rom 8:21**Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Rom 8:22**For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Rom 8:23**And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
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