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That fluffy obtuse stuff from the OT, centuries prior to Jesus' time, cannot be useful for Christianity, contrasting with clearer and more sensible writings in the NT. We're wasting our time here playing with that old dreamy stuff. That's partly why that covenant and its people could never move forward, and a revised drastic new approach was needed, with pure divine human as example, and straightforward words / teachings. Nothing less suffices.
That fluffy obtuse stuff from the OT, centuries prior to Jesus' time, cannot be useful for Christianity, contrasting with clearer and more sensible writings in the NT. We're wasting our time here playing with that old dreamy stuff. That's partly why that covenant and its people could never move forward, and a revised drastic new approach was needed.
The Gospel is based on that stuff you call "fluffy obtuse stuff".
The Gospel is based on that stuff you call "fluffy obtuse stuff".
The Messiah is visible throughout the OT.
You can see it that way, but I don't. Most of what came before - in the OT - was scrapped for Jesus' arrival (praise God). And that's why the Jews rejected him, and still do, because the two approaches are so radically different. The church desperately tries to walk both sides of that impossible fence, but looking clearly and objectively we see a night and day difference between OT and NT.
You can see it that way, but I don't. Most of what came before - in the OT - was scrapped for Jesus' arrival, praise God. And that's why the Jews rejected him, and still do, because it's so radically different.
You're missing so much great stuff to believe that. I really feel bad for anyone with a faith that only goes that deep.
You're missing so much great stuff to believe that. I really feel bad for anyone with a faith that only goes that deep.
Well, I used to read all of that, and am aware of what's there in the OT. But I also learned to separate myself from the church, and all the crazy effort to put the two together, as somehow compatible or agreeable. Then it all became crystal clear. My faith and direction are now both purer and deeper without the unnecessary goings in two opposite directions simultaneously.
Well, I used to read all of that, and am aware of what's there in the OT. But I also learned to separate myself from the church, and being forced to put the two together, as somehow compatible or agreeable. Then it all became crystal clear.
It really is amazing how one's theology goes wonky when they give up worship and fellowship with God's people.
The wonkiness comes from the church's straying, and adding of ideas extraneous to scripture. How much better to go deeper in direct communion and time with God, then sitting around in a room waving hands and parroting a few phrases endlessly. I see what's worship vs. what's mostly just people-time. If you have to go to a specific building, behind walls, to "worship" him, there's a problem there.
Yes Jesus has a seed a offspring, no not naturally but spiritually, and thats why again He was called the everlasting Fahter here Isa 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Now this verse is speaking of none other than the Lord Jesus Christ as the everlasting Father. The word Father means:
head or founder of a household, group, family, or clan
ancestor
grandfather, forefathers — of person
of people
originator or patron of a class, profession, or art
of producer, generator (fig.)
What Christ is designated here, Hes always been if we understand aright Heb 13:8
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
His role as the everlasting Father has always been, even from the beginning, before the foundation when a seed was chosen in Him Eph 1:4
As a Father He has a Seed, not a physical but a spiritual. John Gill writes an interesting note on Isa 9:6 " Everlasting Father" :
The everlasting Father; which does not design any relation of Christ in the Godhead; and there is but one Father in the Godhead, and that is the first Person; indeed Christ and the Father are one, and the Father is in him, and he is in the Father, and he that has seen the one has seen the other, and yet they are distinct, Christ is not the Father; the Son and Spirit may be considered with the first Person as Father, in creation and regeneration, they being jointly concerned therein, but not in the Trinity: it is easy to make it appear Christ is not the Father, but is distinct from him, since he is said to be with the Father from eternity, to be the Son of the Father in truth and love, his own Son, his only begotten and beloved Son; Christ frequently calls the first Person his Father, prayed to him as such, and is our advocate with him, as well as the way unto him; he is said to be sent by the Father, to come from him, and to go to him; and many things are said of Christ that cannot be said of the Father, as his being made flesh, suffering and dying in the room of his people; and the Father is said to do many things unto him, as to anoint him, to seal him, to show him all he did, to commit all judgment to him, and give him to have life in himself as he had: but Christ is a Father with respect to chosen men, who were given him as his children and offspring in covenant; who are adopted into that family that is named of him, and who are regenerated by his Spirit and grace: and to these he is an "everlasting Father"; he was so from everlasting;
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Thats why also He is the Author of Faith Heb 12:2
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
That word author if studied we find means :
that by which anything begins to be, the origin, the active cause
Hes the active cause/causer of the Faith/Faithful because they are His Seed. Abraham was merely typical as the Father of the Faithful Rom 4:11; Gal 3:7,9 because Abraham didnt have the ability to produce believers, but Christ does have the ability and produces it in His Seed !
That fluffy obtuse stuff from the OT, centuries prior to Jesus' time, cannot be useful for Christianity, contrasting with clearer and more sensible writings in the NT. We're wasting our time here playing with that old dreamy stuff. That's partly why that covenant and its people could never move forward, and a revised drastic new approach was needed, with pure divine human as example, and straightforward words / teachings. Nothing less suffices.
So, your god was an utter failure?...
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