Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
Since the writer seems to indicate that some can be without chastisement, of which all them that God Loveth [see Rev 3:19] receives, then its reasonable to conclude that those who be without it, The Lord did not Love, and they are bastards as scripture says, and not son's [This destroys the ungodly concept that all mankind are the son's of God] For if all were sons of God, this inspired statement by the writer of Hebrews is a lie.
Jesus says in Rev 3:19 " as many as He Loves" He Chastens ! Why if He loved all mankind without exception, then His statement " as many as " is misleading and tends to deceive, why even say it that way Lord Jesus, if you Love all mankind without exception.
The phrase " as many as" is a idiom denoting a part as distinct from the whole ! Dividing something into parts.
It can denote a large number, but not all. One can be told to take as many as you like, but that does not mean to take all.
So this very Phrase, As Many as I Love, denotes that Christ does not Love all mankind without exception !
I'm being deceitful? I've explained the distinction between the two seeds in numerous posts.
Regarding Rom 5:18:
Rom 5:18 So, then, as through one offence to all men it is to condemnation, so also through one declaration of 'Righteous' it is to all men to justification of life;
It specifically states ALL MEN. It does not say "all the seed of Israel" to the exclusion of ALL MEN. But rather ALL MEN to the inclusion of all Israel. Ask yourself: Who "is handling the word deceitfully"?.
Regarding your denial of ALL things created in Christ:
Col 1:16 becausein him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,
Col 1:17 and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted.
Col 1:18 And himself is the head of the body—the assembly—who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things —himself—first,
Col 1:19 because in him it did please all the fulness to tabernacle,
Col 1:20 and through him to reconcile the all things to himself—having made peace through the blood of his cross—through him, whether the things upon the earth, whether the things in the heavens.
Regarding your denial of ALL being the offspring of God:
Act 17:24 'God, who did make the world, and all things in it, this One, of heaven and of earth being Lord, in temples made with hands doth not dwell,
Act 17:25 neither by the hands of men is He served—needing anything, He giving to all life, and breath, and all things;
Act 17:26 He made also of one blood every nation of men, to dwell upon all the face of the earth—having ordained times before appointed, and the bounds of their dwellings—
Act 17:27 to seek the Lord, if perhaps they did feel after Him and find, —though, indeed, He is not far from each one of us,
Act 17:28 for in Him we live, and move, and are; as also certain of your poets have said: For of Him also we are offspring.
Act 17:29 'Being, therefore, offspring of God, we ought not to think the Godhead to be like to gold, or silver, or stone, graving of art and device of man;
Seriously, how much more do you need? Is it that you cannot bear the truth that your fellowman was reconciled to God in Christ? Or, possibly that God might love someone in Christ you don't? Or, is it possible that you're unhappy with God being merciful to that which is His? Seriously, what is it that prevents you from rejoicing in the work of Christ for all humanity? Look here:
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
Num 27:16 Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
Mat 20:15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with mine own? Is thine eye evil, because I am good?
Yes you are being deceitful with the word, the very fact you attempt to explain away truth is proof.
Yes you are being deceitful with the word, the very fact you attempt to explain away truth is proof.
I've simply quoted you scripture upon scripture, text after text, Greek terms and their meanings, post after post, and all you've said is "no". Do you realize how foolish that is?
Since the writer seems to indicate that some can be without chastisement, of which all them that God Loveth [see Rev 3:19] receives, then its reasonable to conclude that those who be without it, The Lord did not Love, and they are bastards as scripture says, and not son's [This destroys the ungodly concept that all mankind are the son's of God] For if all were sons of God, this inspired statement by the writer of Hebrews is a lie.
Jesus says in Rev 3:19 " as many as He Loves" He Chastens ! Why if He loved all mankind without exception, then His statement " as many as " is misleading and tends to deceive, why even say it that way Lord Jesus, if you Love all mankind without exception.
The phrase " as many as" is a idiom denoting a part as distinct from the whole ! Dividing something into parts.
It can denote a large number, but not all. One can be told to take as many as you like, but that does not mean to take all.
So this very Phrase, As Many as I Love, denotes that Christ does not Love all mankind without exception !
More foolish exegesis and reasoning of the flesh. The Greek terms translated as love, receive and chastise (being used in the passages you quoted) are verbs being used in the "present tense". It denotes those in Christ of whom Christ is in "presently", and who are experiencing being loved, received and disciplined by Christ subjectively. However, this is not to the exclusion of the rest "in Christ" that are loved objectively, but are, as yet, not experiencing that love, reception and chastisement subjectively.
Do you understand the difference between the two conditions?
Eternal Love for the Reprobate !
If God Loved all men without exception, this implies that all men without exception were in a Eternal Union with Christ before the foundation of the world.
This would also mean that the children of the wicked one, the tares as described here Matt 13:38
The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
That they were Eternally Loved and in Union with Christ before the foundation of the world. Such thinking is utter madness and blasphemous.
Its to say that God so Loved the children of devil as He Loved Christ !
Your reasoning of the flesh knows no bounds...
All things that have come into being were loved objectively before creation (2Ti 1:9). That much you've gotten right.
And "all things" that have come into being were created as such "in Christ" (Col 1:16), the beloved of God (Luk 9:35). Consequently, all creation is made accepted "in the beloved" (Eph 1:6), In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace (Eph 1:7).
All things that have come into being were loved objectively before creation (2Ti 1:9). That much you've gotten right.
And "all things" that have come into being were created as such "in Christ" (Col 1:16), the beloved of God (Luk 9:35). Consequently, all creation is made accepted "in the beloved" (Eph 1:6), In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace (Eph 1:7).
Do you understand any of this?
I repeat, you seem to be dealing with a parrot, no thinking involved.
I know that God does not Love everyone without exception because everyone without exception is not and will not be quickened because of His Great Love. Eph 2:4-5
4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )
God performed this deed for those He Loved while they were dead in sins. Not when they repented or when they came in Faith, but even while dead. In fact coming in repentance and faith are direct results of having been quickened or made alive.
The psalmist wrote once this Ps 80:18
18So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.
The calling upon the name of the Lord follows the quickening..
God's Love to those He Loves is not just a mere emotion, but it is also application. God's Love gives Life [spiritual] to dead sinners.
This was Illustrated with Jesus and the story of Lazarus See Jn 11:3,36
Lazarus was one for scripture says Jesus loved " behold, how He loved him"
Christ love was demonstrated by quickening Lazarus from the dead.
God nor Christ's Love could be of no lesser degree of that which they command of their followers. 1 Jn 3:16-18
16Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren.
17But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
18My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Let us Love in deed. The word deed is the same word in the greek for work, its the word ergon and it means doing !
James using the almost same identical situation adds this James 2:15-16
15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Does not God's Love give those He Loves what is needful for their souls.
God's Love gives those He loves, and sees them dead in trespasses and sins, He is mover with compassion and gives them life from the dead. Love expresses itself in deed to the brethren.
Now are not those Christ died for considered His brethren ? Heb 2:11,17
11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
Where they not His Brethren before they believed in Him ? Yes they were, thats why He was made like unto them to deliver them from their spiritual ruin and enmity against God.
Was He not the Firstborn of many Brethren who had not yet been born sinners ? Rom 8:29
29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
If Christ sees one of His Brethren dead in trespasses and sins, and He has all Power in His Hands, will He suffer His Brethren, whom for sure He Loves, to remain helpless in that dead state ? Cannot and will He not quicken whomsoever He wills? Jn 5:21
21For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. Certainly He will s to quicken those He Loves, He laid His life down for them. Jn 15:13
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Scripture says that He died for them while they were yet enemies, and in spite of that, by His death He reconciled them to God, and those so reconciled [even while dead in sin and enemies] Shall be saved[Experientially] by His Life. That says it all.
It can read Shall be quickened by His Life, made alive. So, those who die in their sins, dead to God, alienated from Him, God did not Love them, nor did Christ Love them and Lay down His Life for them, if He did ,He would have quickened them, made them alive, saved them. Eph 2:5
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
Ye see that ? The quickening results in being saved by Grace.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
