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I for one have a different understanding than the traditional interpretation of what demons are and the relationships that exist between the natural and supernatural
How is your understanding different than the traditional interpretation of demons?
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-07-2021 at 03:18 PM..
For me it is about understanding what that “dark side” is and what it is not (and that relates to context)
I do not believe that a spiritual evil entity called Satan was created at the beginning fully formed so to speak
But I do believe that it has developed from the beginning as a consequence of our (humanities) individual and collective free-will to participate in it (at different levels)
Gen 3:1**Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
H5172***(Strong)
נָחַשׁ
nâchash
naw-khash'
A primitive root; properly to hiss, that is, whisper a (magic) spell; generally to prognosticate: - *X certainly, divine, enchanter, (use) X enchantment, learn by experience, X indeed, diligently observe.
Joh 8:42**Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43**Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44**Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Cain and Abel are stories about Adams progeny who are brothers and one of them was a lier and murder which is “satanic” “devilish” as it does not conform to what humans have instilled in them relating to our conscience and spirit that we all have
The awareness of morality is not a Christian thing it is there as a human thing, it is in our composition of flesh/spirit being united as a living organism with emotional and intellectual (creative) ability
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
How is your understanding different than the tradition interpretation of demons?
I see more of a development, evolution and participation that happens between the natural/supernatural “worlds” “spheres”
This is related to that dimensionality that we have discussed previously I believe
It doesn’t come down from above, it is from the lower and builds up to create the “middle layer”
Eph 6:10**Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11**Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12**For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13**Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 1:20**Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21**Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22**And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23**Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Jas 1:14**But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15**Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16**Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17**Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jas 1:18**Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
I see more of a development, evolution and participation that happens between the natural/supernatural “worlds” “spheres”
This is related to that dimensionality that we have discussed previously I believe
It doesn’t come down from above, it is from the lower and builds up to create the “middle layer”
Eph 6:10**Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11**Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12**For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13**Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 1:20**Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21**Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22**And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23**Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Jas 1:14**But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15**Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16**Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17**Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jas 1:18**Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
In post #3 you said, ''I do not believe that a spiritual evil entity called Satan was created at the beginning fully formed so to speak.'' I think you might have mentioned this in the past but I don't really remember. Do you mean that you don't believe that there is an actual being at all that is called Satan or just that Satan wasn't created as an evil being but became that evil being when he rebelled against God?
In post #3 you said, ''I do not believe that a spiritual evil entity called Satan was created at the beginning fully formed so to speak.'' I think you might have mentioned this in the past but I don't really remember. Do you mean that you don't believe that there is an actual being at all that is called Satan or just that Satan wasn't created as an evil being but became that evil being when he rebelled against God?
Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen (rebelled), but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of various philosophers, all under the authority of the Church/Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. These adversaries, false prophets and accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour.
Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen (rebelled), but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of various philosophers, all under the authority of the Church/Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. These adversaries and accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour.
Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen (rebelled), but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of various philosophers, all under the authority of the Church/Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. These adversaries, false prophets and accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
We are going to have to disagree.
I have no problem with disagreeing or agreeing to disagree.
Indeed, there have been messengers’ who have fallen (rebelled), but they weren’t angels! These false prophets have attempted to turn the truth of adversity into the lie called Satan through the blending of Christianity with the thoughts of various philosophers, all under the authority of the Church/Emperors who required a national amalgamated religion to solidity their control over the people. These adversaries, false prophets and accusers of Christ, seek whom they can devour.
I see more of a development, evolution and participation that happens between the natural/supernatural “worlds” “spheres”
This is related to that dimensionality that we have discussed previously I believe
It doesn’t come down from above, it is from the lower and builds up to create the “middle layer”
Eph 6:10**Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph 6:11**Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph 6:12**For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph 6:13**Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph 1:20**Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,
Eph 1:21**Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
Eph 1:22**And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
Eph 1:23**Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.
Jas 1:14**But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15**Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Jas 1:16**Do not err, my beloved brethren.
Jas 1:17**Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.
Jas 1:18**Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
Are you familiar with the occult concept of an egregore, Meerkat? That is the kind of collective "spiritual entity" that could be what you are suggesting Satan is. I could accept the existence of such temporary entities comprised of the collective minds of living people. It could explain the inexplicable collective horror of the holocaust. But I just do not think there are any permanent spirit BEINGS, per se, that are evil.
Are you familiar with the occult concept of an egregore, Meerkat? That is the kind of collective "spiritual entity" that could be what you are suggesting Satan is. I could accept the existence of such temporary entities comprised of the collective minds of living people. It could explain the inexplicable collective horror of the holocaust. But I just do not think there are any permanent spirit BEINGS, per se, that are evil.
if you think about what Paul said in Rom 8, an egregore comes to mind.
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