Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
World wide according to the times. How large was the known world in the era recorded in Genesis?
The ancient epics of Gilgamesh and of Atrahasis describe great flooding and the building of boats to save people and animals.
I believe there was a great flood as far as the eye could see in ancient times in the known world.
There's a very plausible theory on this one, considering where I sit was covered by a mile of ice some 12,000 years ago. When the glaciers began to melt, a very large lake was formed in the center; which eventually drained quickly into our oceans creating a rapid sea level rise.
then in what way is the God of the Hebrews actually superior to the gods of the ANE pagans? Is he?
The Genesis creation stories were written as subversive, polemical attacks on the pagan creation stories for the very purpose of demonstrating the superiority of the Hebrew God Yahweh over the gods of Israel's pagan neighbors.
For instance, whereas in the other creation stories the gods had to struggle against chaos, and each other, to bring about creation, the Hebrew God Yahweh effortlessly created the heavens and the earth with but a word. Whereas for the pagan peoples of the ANE the moon and the sun were gods, in Genesis they are simply lights that Yahweh placed in the firmament to divide the day from the night. Genesis demotes the sun and moon gods to mere lights. Genesis says, 'My God can beat up your gods.'
Quote:
If you compare the narrative of Genesis 1-2 next to an ANE myth or better yet, to what actually happened in reality; which one is a better story?
The actual issue is, does Genesis depict the reality of creation? The answer is no, it does not. The reality is that our universe had a beginning which based on the evidence resulted from the 'big bang.' Then after a very long process of cosmic evolution our own sun and earth were formed, life began, and by means of biological evolution and common descent, man evolved. This is how God chose to do things for his own reasons.
The Genesis creation stories were written as subversive, polemical attacks on the pagan creation stories for the very purpose of demonstrating the superiority of the Hebrew God Yahweh over the gods of Israel's pagan neighbors.
For instance, whereas in the other creation stories the gods had to struggle against chaos, and each other, to bring about creation, the Hebrew God Yahweh effortlessly created the heavens and the earth with but a word. Whereas for the pagan peoples of the ANE the moon and the sun were gods, in Genesis they are simply lights that Yahweh placed in the firmament to divide the day from the night. Genesis demotes the sun and moon gods to mere lights. Genesis says, 'My God can beat up your gods.'
I understand your argument. The problem is that if Genesis is fiction, then in reality, the God of the Hebrews is not actually superior to the pagan gods. He cannot in reality "beat them up". He did not *actually* "effortlessly create the heavens and the earth with but a word".
How is our God *actually* better than the pagan gods?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
The actual issue is, does Genesis depict the reality of creation? The answer is no, it does not. The reality is that our universe had a beginning which based on the evidence resulted from the 'big bang.' Then after a very long process of cosmic evolution our own sun and earth were formed, life began, and by means of biological evolution and common descent, man evolved. This is how God chose to do things for his own reasons.
So our God is no better than the gods of the ANE pagans.
I understand your argument. The problem is that if Genesis is fiction, then in reality, the God of the Hebrews is not actually superior to the pagan gods. He cannot in reality "beat them up". He did not *actually* "effortlessly create the heavens and the earth with but a word".
How is our God *actually* better than the pagan gods?
So our God is no better than the gods of the ANE pagans.
You completely misunderstand. God exists. He is real. But God wasn't concerned with providing the actual details about how the universe came to be. The ancient Hebrew peoples could never have understood it. They could never have comprehended 21st century cosmology. So though divine inspiration God allowed the biblical writers to express things in their own way. And that involved using the cosmology of their time to communicate certain things about God. It's divine accommodation - God condescending to where the ancient Hebrews were in terms of their understanding of things in order to communicate divine truths.
I've already told you why the Genesis creation story shows the Hebrew God to be better than the gods of the pagan ANE peoples. Explaining it again won't do any good.
You completely misunderstand. God exists. He is real.
Is this your response to how the Hebrew God is superior to the ANE gods? He is superior because He exists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
But God wasn't concerned with providing the actual details about how the universe came to be. The ancient Hebrew peoples could never have understood it. They could never have comprehended 21st century cosmology. So though divine inspiration God allowed the biblical writers to express things in their own way. And that involved using the cosmology of their time to communicate certain things about God. It's divine accommodation - God condescending to where the ancient Hebrews were in terms of their understanding of things in order to communicate divine truths.
So according to you, God allowed His people (both Israel and the Church) to wallow in ignorance in regards to the origins of the universe for millennia, with His holiest prophets and saints affirming the false narrative.
Then, "in the fullness of time", God allowed the truth of evolution to be brought forward; not by holy people who love God, but by people who hate God and the Church.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Way
I've already told you why the Genesis creation story shows the Hebrew God to be better than the gods of the pagan ANE peoples. Explaining it again won't do any good.
I'm not asking how the story shows the Hebrew God to be better than the gods of the ANE pagans. That is obvious. I'm asking how the Hebrew God is superior to the ANE gods in actuality. Is your answer to this "God exists, and the pagan gods don't"?
Is this your response to how the Hebrew God is superior to the ANE gods? He is superior because He exists?
So according to you, God allowed His people (both Israel and the Church) to wallow in ignorance in regards to the origins of the universe for millennia, with His holiest prophets and saints affirming the false narrative.
Then, "in the fullness of time", God allowed the truth of evolution to be brought forward; not by holy people who love God, but by people who hate God and the Church.
I'm not asking how the story shows the Hebrew God to be better than the gods of the ANE pagans. That is obvious. I'm asking how the Hebrew God is superior to the ANE gods in actuality. Is your answer to this "God exists, and the pagan gods don't"?
I've already explained to you. I'm not going to explain it again. You've taken up enough of my time.
I've already explained to you. I'm not going to explain it again. You've taken up enough of my time.
As far as I'm concerned, whatever you have explained has had nothing to do with the simple and direct questions I've asked you.
I have no choice but to assume that either you have not thought about these issues very deeply or that you're being dishonest. In charity, I'm going with the former assumption.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
