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There may have been a historical Noah, or there may not have been. He is a part of the primordial history of the Bible meaning that we can't be sure that he existed. We have only the Biblical story of Noah. I am leaning toward the idea that there was no historical Adam, and there may not have been a historical Noah either. I like MQ's post 25 on the matter.
The Bible consists of various genres and Noah need not be taken historically, though as I said they may have been a Noah who was inserted into the flood story.
I believe that the narratives have been built up and woven together, there was probably some literal historical people that these stories were initially based on but they have been used by the scribes, prophets, priests as a vehicle for ‘prophetic’ purposes- in another thread you referred to the ‘historicised myth’ and I believe the “myth” looks forward to completion globally/nationally which at that time will be seen as historical when it is fulfilled
But we need to look at the bigger picture to see/perceive/understand it
Scripture to me seems more like ‘blueprint’ and has been used by “men” in this way over the past 2000 years
New and Old Treasures
Mat 13:51**Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 13:52**Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
Mat 5:17**Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18**For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19**Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20**For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
I believe that the narratives have been built up and woven together, there was probably some literal historical people that these stories were initially based on but they have been used by the scribes, prophets, priests as a vehicle for ‘prophetic’ purposes- in another thread you referred to the ‘historicised myth’ and I believe the “myth” looks forward to completion globally/nationally which at that time will be seen as historical when it is fulfilled
But we need to look at the bigger picture to see/perceive/understand it
Scripture to me seems more like ‘blueprint’ and has been used by “men” in this way over the past 2000 years
New and Old Treasures
Mat 13:51**Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.
Mat 13:52**Then said he unto them, Therefore every scribe which is instructed unto the kingdom of heaven is like unto a man that is an householder, which bringeth forth out of his treasure things new and old.
Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
Mat 5:17**Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18**For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19**Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:20**For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Yes. While Genesis underwent final editing during the exilic or post-exilic period there were most probably stories, either written or oral, and records from which the stories were written in Genesis. Biblical characters such as Noah may have been based on actual people who became a part of the flood story. I do regard some of the stories as 'historicised myth' in which real events were told in a mythicized way. The flood story is a perfect example. An actual flood, large in scope but certainly not a global flood happened and it was written about in a mythicised way. The biblical flood story is similar to the other ancient Near East flood stories which did the same thing - took the memory of a large flood which over time became legendary in its telling, but for the purpose of trying to make sense of the event and why the gods or God in the case of the Hebrews would bring such a flood.
The Exodus from Egypt is another example. Most scholars believe that there was some kind of exodus from Egypt but that it was not as the Bible records it. The historical event was told in a mythicized way.
The Hebrews branched off from Mesopotamia, where there was a popular flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The oldest fragments of Gilgamesh come from about 2000 BCE. The most complete version was written about 1100 BCE. For at least 900 years, the Gilgamesh flood story was told in Mesopotamian cities like Ur, where Abraham lived.
In Gilgamesh, the gods punish humanity with a global flood. One man is given specific instructions about how to build a great boat, which he stocks with seeds and animals. After the rain stops, the survivor sends out birds to seek dry land. After landing, the survivor and his family make sacrifices to the gods.
Abraham and his people carried the memory of the Gilgamesh flood story with them out of Ur and retold it for generations. The story changed in the the telling. When the Hebrews wrote it down around 950 BCE, God had replaced the gods and the survivor was called Noah.
There may have been many people named Noah, but none of them rode a great boat through a factual flood.
The Hebrews branched off from Mesopotamia, where there was a popular flood story in the Epic of Gilgamesh. The oldest fragments of Gilgamesh come from about 2000 BCE. The most complete version was written about 1100 BCE. For at least 900 years, the Gilgamesh flood story was told in Mesopotamian cities like Ur, where Abraham lived.
In Gilgamesh, the gods punish humanity with a global flood. One man is given specific instructions about how to build a great boat, which he stocks with seeds and animals. After the rain stops, the survivor sends out birds to seek dry land. After landing, the survivor and his family make sacrifices to the gods.
Abraham and his people carried the memory of the Gilgamesh flood story with them out of Ur and retold it for generations. The story changed in the the telling. When the Hebrews wrote it down around 950 BCE, God had replaced the gods and the survivor was called Noah.
There may have been many people named Noah, but none of them rode a great boat through a factual flood.
Or maybe the Epic of Gilgamesh developed after the actual flood took place.
The book of Genesis is part of the law books of the OT and is in a separate category from the historical OT books.
The story of Noah, like many other stories in the books of the law, teaches the law of the consequences of sin and that the righteous will be saved. You can believe that without having to believe or disbelieve that Noah and/or the great flood were real.
The book of Genesis is part of the law books of the OT and is in a separate category from the historical OT books.
The story of Noah, like many other stories in the books of the law, teaches the law of the consequences of sin and that the righteous will be saved. You can believe that without having to believe or disbelieve that Noah and/or the great flood were real.
Actually..the book is entirely historical narrative.
Or maybe the Epic of Gilgamesh developed after the actual flood took place.
Mesopotamian agriculture depended on regular flooding of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The geological record shows occasional flooding that was catastrophic to the cities of Mesopotamia, as is likely to happen when you build on a flood plain. Imagine you're standing on top of the ziggurat of Ur, and all around you is water as far as you can see. It would seems as if the whole world had flooded.
Something like this no doubt gave rise to the Gilgamesh flood story.
Actually..the book is entirely historical narrative.
So the world really is a flat plane with four corners?
Last edited by Arizona Humphrey; 11-19-2021 at 01:19 PM..
Reason: typo
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