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Yes. While Genesis underwent final editing during the exilic or post-exilic period there were most probably stories, either written or oral, and records from which the stories were written in Genesis. Biblical characters such as Noah may have been based on actual people who became a part of the flood story. I do regard some of the stories as 'historicised myth' in which real events were told in a mythicized way. The flood story is a perfect example. An actual flood, large in scope but certainly not a global flood happened and it was written about in a mythicised way. The biblical flood story is similar to the other ancient Near East flood stories which did the same thing - took the memory of a large flood which over time became legendary in its telling, but for the purpose of trying to make sense of the event and why the gods or God in the case of the Hebrews would bring such a flood.
The Exodus from Egypt is another example. Most scholars believe that there was some kind of exodus from Egypt but that it was not as the Bible records it. The historical event was told in a mythicized way.
That came up during the EFM course I took. The priest who facilitated the classes was from Oklahoma. She used as an example the novel The Grapes of Wrath, which depicts this mass exodus from the Dust Bowl states to California. In reality, she said, it wasn't always that way. Yes, some people abandoned their land and moved out west, never to return, but most of the time, a member or two of a family went out to California and worked to make some money and send it home, and then they might return home after a time and other family members go until the crisis had passed and the land became arable again. John Steinbeck mythicized the story of the Dust Bowl, and that's what stays in the American conscious.
That came up during the EFM course I took. The priest who facilitated the classes was from Oklahoma. She used as an example the novel The Grapes of Wrath, which depicts this mass exodus from the Dust Bowl states to California. In reality, she said, it wasn't always that way. Yes, some people abandoned their land and moved out west, never to return, but most of the time, a member or two of a family went out to California and worked to make some money and send it home, and then they might return home after a time and other family members go until the crisis had passed and the land became arable again. John Steinbeck mythicized the story of the Dust Bowl, and that's what stays in the American conscious.
Yeah, things don't always happen the way they're reported as happening.
Scroll down to #7 The Floods in Mesopotamia, and yes he was real.
The Biblical story of Noah, the ark, and the flood is an invention of the Hebrew priesthood during the Babylonian captivity.
That is silly, do know how many names Noah had on every continent in almost every religion?
The story of Noah was in the Americas and other countries and continents before Moses was born in able to write his story of the event. The Giglamesh is the oldest written record of it and Egypt has always carried the boat of Osirus in the streets to this very day. Orion was taken from the water on the exact day that Noah was, it was the 17th of the second month.
The Egyptians called Moses," Osrirus," BECAUSE he was also taken from the waters, and this story goes on with Israel taken from the waters, with Jonah taken from the waters to Jesus making fishers of men to take others from the waters.
There is a name for Noah EVERYWHERE.
What this proves is that all people came from the same region having this same legend that spread over the globe before Moses.
Moses tells the creation story in a way that nobody could possibly take it literal because in the 24 hourse between Adam and Eve, Adam had been tilling, seeding and HARVESTING SO FREAKING LONG that God looked down to see he was lonely and needed a mate.
But Moses had to finish his job before Eve came, and so after ye yad harvested for decades or centuries, he had to name EVERY LIVING CREATURE, and he couldnt even name all the birds in a year's time.
After all of this supposedly finished in 24 hours, guess what?
God kills Moses, opens up his chest to make a woman out of a rib.
The flood story is told in.l the same wsy, and just as Queeny said, those two stories are purposely told in a way so that NOBODY WITH A STRAIGHT FACE COULD EVER DEBATE ABOUT THEM BEING LITERAL STORIES
Moses went out of his way so nobody could take it as literal.
It is allegory, a spuritual story, in fact, the very same story with Jesus becoming the new Adam, lain down 8n a sleep of death, bloid and water and symbolism of a rib came from his body to create a bride from his own body and these are the witnesses.
I'm getting confused here. I just read Biologos take on the Flood, along with other scholars who don't think the Flood was world-wide, then where does that put Noah? Since he is mentioned as a real historical figure in the Bible.
If the Flood is a polemic (my new word, lol) against other ANE flood literature, then what do we do with Noah? The Ark is figurative, but Noah is real? That gets kind of complicated.
Google didn't get me far on this question.
Many say Jesus is not real as well Sand. No doubt you believe he is real, and he definitely believed Noah was real as well as the flood. Perhaps you remember what he said about those who lost their lives in the flood? He quite simply said they took no note, until the flood came and swept them all away. Similarly, those who think the flood didn't happen, and that Jesus will not return to remove the wicked, they as well are simply not taking note, not discerning the signs that Jesus gave concerning this time period.
Many say Jesus is not real as well Sand. No doubt you believe he is real, and he definitely believed Noah was real as well as the flood. Perhaps you remember what he said about those who lost their lives in the flood? He quite simply said they took no note, until the flood came and swept them all away. Similarly, those who think the flood didn't happen, and that Jesus will not return to remove the wicked, they as well are simply not taking note, not discerning the signs that Jesus gave concerning this time period.
Jesus was simply using a story to make a point. There was no global flood. The geological evidence is against such a flood. For one thing, no single flood, no matter how large could have laid down the various kinds of strata that are found in the Grand Canyon in such an orderly manner. Furthermore, such a flood would have been much too violent for the strata to even have been laid down.
Fundamentalist Christians really need to start using their heads about this.
Fundamentalist Christians really need to start using their heads about this.
Their faith is too fragile. If they admit to scientific findings over the literal view of the Bible, their faith is in jeopardy.
Even though we disagree some, you seem very mature in your beliefs and understanding. Where do you fall on the Christian spectrum, if I may ask? I would have expected your views more from a Catholic, but I understand that isn’t what you are .
Their faith is too fragile. If they admit to scientific findings over the literal view of the Bible, their faith is in jeopardy.
Even though we disagree some, you seem very mature in your beliefs and understanding. Where do you fall on the Christian spectrum, if I may ask? I would have expected your views more from a Catholic, but I understand that isn’t what you are .
Where I fall on the Christian spectrum could be a bit difficult to pin down. I'm not a fundamentalist even though I do believe the fundamentals of the Christian faith such as the deity of Jesus, the Trinity, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, that he rose again. I believe that Satan is a fallen angel in rebellion against God and in the existence of demons. And I believe that the Bible is the word of God, but not in the way that strict fundamentalists do. It is also a very human book which reflects the mistaken ancient cosmology of the Hebrews and other ancient Near East people - a flat earth supported by pillars, a hard dome firmament over the earth, etc. Yet I don't think that I can be classified as a progressive Christian either because progressive Christianity if I understand correctly denies that Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins and downplays the deity of Jesus. I do like and have a lot of respect for Old Testament scholar Peter Enns who is a progressive Christian.
I believe that the Bible has to be understood from the perspective of the ancient Hebrew writers during the time and ancient Near East culture in which they lived and that the Genesis creation and flood stories are a product of that culture.
I stand strongly on scientific evidence and therefore cannot accept the creation and flood stories as historical.
I also realize that while there is history in the Old Testament, much of that history is embellished. For instance, most scholars believe that there was an actual Exodus from Egypt of some sort but it was not as the Bible portrays it.
Last edited by Michael Way; 11-20-2021 at 09:31 AM..
Where I fall on the Christian spectrum could be a bit difficult to pin down. I'm not a fundamentalist even though I do believe the fundamentals of the Christian faith such as the deity of Jesus, the Trinity, that Jesus died on the cross for our sins, that he rose again. I believe that Satan is a fallen angel in rebellion against God and in the existence of demons. And I believe that the Bible is the word of God, but not in the way that strict fundamentalists do. It is also a very human book which reflects the mistaken ancient cosmology of the Hebrews and other ancient Near East people - a flat earth supported by pillars, a hard dome firmament over the earth, etc. Yet I don't think that I can be classified as a progressive Christian either because progressive Christianity if I understand correctly denies that Jesus died as a sacrifice for our sins and downplays the deity of Jesus. I do like and have a lot of respect for Old Testament scholar Peter Enns who is a progressive Christian.
I believe that the Bible has to be understood from the perspective of the ancient Hebrew writers during the time and ancient Near East culture in which they lived and that the Genesis creation and flood stories are a product of that culture.
I stand strongly on scientific evidence and therefore cannot accept the creation and flood stories as historical.
I also realize that while there is history in the Old Testament, much of that history is embellished. For instance, most scholars believe that there was an actual Exodus from Egypt of some sort but it was not as the Bible portrays it.
Nice summation . Thanks . What type of church do you find yourself attending with these views? I’m not trying to pin you down for argument of any kind, if you don’t want to answer I understand. Just curious where you managed to fit in with these beliefs as you aren’t a Catholic, where this would almost be the norm .
Yes. While Genesis underwent final editing during the exilic or post-exilic period there were most probably stories, either written or oral, and records from which the stories were written in Genesis. Biblical characters such as Noah may have been based on actual people who became a part of the flood story. I do regard some of the stories as 'historicised myth' in which real events were told in a mythicized way. The flood story is a perfect example. An actual flood, large in scope but certainly not a global flood happened and it was written about in a mythicised way. The biblical flood story is similar to the other ancient Near East flood stories which did the same thing - took the memory of a large flood which over time became legendary in its telling, but for the purpose of trying to make sense of the event and why the gods or God in the case of the Hebrews would bring such a flood.
The Exodus from Egypt is another example. Most scholars believe that there was some kind of exodus from Egypt but that it was not as the Bible records it. The historical event was told in a mythicized way.
This reminds me of a documentary made by Spielberg (I think) and James Cameron. Can't remember the name but it was very well-done. He listed all the miracles in Exodus and in a respectful way, showed how they "could have" happened in a natural phenomena way.
Many inexplicable events seemed miraculous to ancient cultures. Hence, the supernatural myths....just one viewpoint.
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