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I'm getting confused here. I just read Biologos take on the Flood, along with other scholars who don't think the Flood was world-wide, then where does that put Noah? Since he is mentioned as a real historical figure in the Bible.
If the Flood is a polemic (my new word, lol) against other ANE flood literature, then what do we do with Noah? The Ark is figurative, but Noah is real? That gets kind of complicated.
Google didn't get me far on this question.
People who wrote about Noah weren't aware of the full geography of the planet and had no way of knowing whether or not the flood was world-wide. There was a flood- there is historical evidence of that- but it might or might not have been world-wide. Similarly, two of every animal fit into a boat? Really?
That doesn't affect the theological truth of the story, or Noah.
People who wrote about Noah weren't aware of the full geography of the planet and had no way of knowing whether or not the flood was world-wide. There was a flood- there is historical evidence of that- but it might or might not have been world-wide. Similarly, two of every animal fit into a boat? Really?
That doesn't affect the theological truth of the story, or Noah.
I agree, but what IS the "theological truth" of the Noah story? Get right with God before it's too late?
Is a flood of water reallly speaking of real water?
Did the flood of Noah cover real mountains?
Revelation And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
The woman is sitting above the waters and the waters are in the people, and there is a dragon in the waters of people
What is water, what are mountains?
Noah was taken from the water just as Moses was also taken from the waters which gave him a unique view of Noah taken from the waters after their crossings
You are the Egyptian in flesh and following the ways of the world, the plagues come upon you, you convert and try to leave the ways of the world behind because God calls all his sons out of Egypt, the world. You also have to make that crossing whether in life or death.
The Egyptian dies, the Israeli lives when the waters are divided. This division in shown in so many places that you could write a book about it and how the last Passover will split your waters to expose what is hidden under the waters. When you are forgiven sins, they are cast into the seas to remain under the waters, but if the waters are split in your death, its because it didnt happen in life, you have no covering, and so you are naked exposing every hidden thing, only those who have a covering will not be exposed.
When Jesus steps his feet upon the mount of Olives where the mountain cleaves in two, it is talking about your death and how everyone born will find themselves between the two halves, same thing we saw on the cross, a division.
Everything comes down to how each of us will make our crossing from the old world to the new, from this old body to a new body when soul and spirit will be divided.
Jesus walking upon the waters is pointing to just that, he was symbolised as a dolphin just as the moving tabernacle was, but thats another story.
Jesus came to make fishers of men for this reason, to save people from the waters, and at no point does the book of Revelation ever use the word," Water," to mean actual waters., or mountains to mean actual mountains.
If you believe in Jesus, a river of pure water will well up inside you as the river runs through you.
Revelation speaking of seas, and rivers and or any body of water, its not speaking of literal water, it is speaking of the waters in a person, and the waters that a person is in.
"If a person had enough faith, he could say to this mountain, " Be cast into the sea."Jesus was not speaking in a literal sense, he was speaking of the mountain your right eye.
Any use of the word water, or a story about flooding is in general, a symbolic story that is used in a real language.
God hovering over the waters isnt speaking of waters, neither is the promised rain of Pentecost, real rain, it is a spiritual rain.
What happened in Noah's day was the flood of Shemini Atzeret, a global flood of spirit that killed everyone.
This same flood is.the flood Jesus speaks of and in that day, the foundations will open up and spew water, the heavens will open and flood water so long that the waters will cover.every mountain.
Can it happen?
Can a flood be so extreem as to cover every single mountain on Earth?
Of course it can, and of course it is coming as Jesus said.
What is a mountain?
The use of the word, " Mountain," in the bible, it is not referring to real mountains.
The flood of Shemini Atzeret will cover every mountain.
Here is a couple of scriptures speaking about mountains in a way that they dont mean actual mountains.
Jeremiah 51
Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, you who devastate the whole earth, declares the LORD. I will stretch out My hand against you; I will roll you over the cliffs and turn you into a charred
Isaiah 40
Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground will become smooth, and the rugged land a plain.
Ezekiel
And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places
Amoz
1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
The City of Jerusalem is not going to rise up higher than mount Everest.
The Abomination of Desolation
(Mark 13:14-23; Luke 21:20-24)
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day
Jesus isnt telling people to go on top of their roof and stay there, Jesus is not telling people to run and hide in the mountains of Judah, he is telling you to go and study with priests of Judaism when you see the abomination of desolation within yourself.
You see the abomination because he is lawless and he teaches lawlessness, you are to run to priests of Judaism who know what they worship, who know God's laws and ways.
Either way, just because somebody reads about a flood that covered every mountain, it doesnt mean it is speaking of real mountains or a real flood.
Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 11-20-2021 at 05:11 PM..
Is a flood of water reallly speaking of real water?
Did the flood of Noah cover real mountains?
Revelation And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
The woman is sitting above the waters and the waters are in the people, and there is a dragon in the waters of people
What is water, what are mountains?
Noah was taken from the water just as Moses was also taken from the waters which gave him a unique view of Noah taken from the waters after their crossings
You are the Egyptian in flesh and following the ways of the world, the plagues come upon you, you convert and try to leave the ways of the world behind because God calls all his sons out of Egypt, the world. You also have to make that crossing whether in life or death.
The Egyptian dies, the Israeli lives when the waters are divided. This division in shown in so many places that you could write a book about it and how the last Passover will split your waters to expose what is hidden under the waters. When you are forgiven sins, they are cast into the seas to remain under the waters, but if the waters are split in your death, its because it didnt happen in life, you have no covering, and so you are naked exposing every hidden thing, only those who have a covering will not be exposed.
When Jesus steps his feet upon the mount of Olives where the mountain cleaves in two, it is talking about your death and how everyone born will find themselves between the two halves, same thing we saw on the cross, a division.
Everything comes down to how each of us will make our crossing from the old world to the new, from this old body to a new body when soul and spirit will be divided.
Jesus walking upon the waters is pointing to just that, he was symbolised as a dolphin just as the moving tabernacle was, but thats another story.
Jesus came to make fishers of men for this reason, to save people from the waters, and at no point does the book of Revelation ever use the word," Water," to mean actual waters., or mountains to mean actual mountains.
If you believe in Jesus, a river of pure water will well up inside you as the river runs through you.
Revelation speaking of seas, and rivers and or any body of water, its not speaking of literal water, it is speaking of the waters in a person, and the waters that a person is in.
"If a person had enough faith, he could say to this mountain, " Be cast into the sea."Jesus was not speaking in a literal sense, he was speaking of the mountain your right eye.
Any use of the word water, or a story about flooding is in general, a symbolic story that is used in a real language.
God hovering over the waters isnt speaking of waters, neither is the promised rain of Pentecost, real rain, it is a spiritual rain.
What happened in Noah's day was the flood of Shemini Atzeret, a global flood of spirit that killed everyone.
This same flood is.the flood Jesus speaks of and in that day, the foundations will open up and spew water, the heavens will open and flood water so long that the waters will cover.every mountain.
Can it happen?
Can a flood be so extreem as to cover every single mountain on Earth?
Of course it can, and of course it is coming as Jesus said.
What is a mountain?
The use of the word, " Mountain," in the bible, it is not referring to real mountains.
The flood of Shemini Atzeret will cover every mountain.
Here is a couple of scriptures speaking about mountains in a way that they dont mean actual mountains.
Jeremiah 51
Behold, I am against you, O destroying mountain, you who devastate the whole earth, declares the LORD. I will stretch out My hand against you; I will roll you over the cliffs and turn you into a charred
Isaiah 40
Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground will become smooth, and the rugged land a plain.
Ezekiel
And say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places
Amoz
1The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.
The City of Jerusalem is not going to rise up higher than mount Everest.
The Abomination of Desolation
(Mark 13:14-23; Luke 21:20-24)
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matthew 24
Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day
Jesus isnt telling people to go on top of their roof and stay there, Jesus is not telling people to run and hide in the mountains of Judah, he is telling you to go and study with priests of Judaism when you see the abomination of desolation within yourself.
You see the abomination because he is lawless and he teaches lawlessness, you are to run to priests of Judaism who know what they worship, who know God's laws and ways.
Either way, just because somebody reads about a flood that covered every mountain, it doesnt mean it is speaking of real mountains or a real flood.
Your last paragraph is what people need to start to understand. Just because scripture speak about waters, fish, trees, birds etc does not mean they are talking about real waters, fish or trees.
Maybe they just think it wasn't world wide. It's possible the people of that time believed it was the whole world and only they and the animals they knew of existed and they were the world as far as they could see and travel.
I'm getting confused here. I just read Biologos take on the Flood, along with other scholars who don't think the Flood was world-wide, then where does that put Noah? Since he is mentioned as a real historical figure in the Bible.
if people believe in ALL of Jesus words, this is what he said concerning what happened to mankind in Noah's day. vs our day. (Luke 17:26-30 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man. They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all... Even so will it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed).
there were lot's of people on Earth during Noah's day. and I'm pretty sure they were not all living under one another. but they had to be close enough to get the words or hear for themselves the words of Jehovah God from Noah. because Jehovah gave man where ever they were, a chance to repent and be saved. just like MANY today, they chose not to. regardless, where ever people were, they got caught in it. since the Bible showed that only 8 survived. peace
Jesus was simply using a story to make a point. There was no global flood. The geological evidence is against such a flood. For one thing, no single flood, no matter how large could have laid down the various kinds of strata that are found in the Grand Canyon in such an orderly manner. Furthermore, such a flood would have been much too violent for the strata to even have been laid down.
Fundamentalist Christians really need to start using their heads about this.
Jesus KNEW he was speaking on what actually had happened. true he was "making a Point." and that point was, you better get right! as he said ("JUST LIKE IN THE DAYS OF NOAH...",Matt. 24:37-30). it WASN'T just a "story" to Jesus, it was FACT! and geologist are imperfect humans like everyone else. it doesn't mean they are totally right in everything the believed or taught.
Jehovah God is the Creator of everything we see, including Man. sadly Man tend to believe he has the answers to everything, and we don't! it doesn't matter what one went to school for. if Jehovah God wants his Creations to go unharmed, it would be just that way. people say, then where is the Ark? they said the same thing concerning the Garden of Eden. saying if it can't be found, it was Never there. if Jehovah God doesn't want man to get their greedy, money making hands on it, he won't let it be found.
Jehovah God the Almighty, said that there was a flood, who am I to call him a liar. most importantly who should I put my trust in, imperfect men or a Perfect God? sadly when Jesus gets the go-ahead to destroy. (Rev. 19:11-16) and (Rev. 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon), it'll be too late for MANY of us to then believe. peace
Jesus KNEW he was speaking on what actually had happened. true he was "making a Point." and that point was, you better get right! as he said ("JUST LIKE IN THE DAYS OF NOAH...",Matt. 24:37-30). it WASN'T just a "story" to Jesus, it was FACT! and geologist are imperfect humans like everyone else. it doesn't mean they are totally right in everything the believed or taught.
Jehovah God is the Creator of everything we see, including Man. sadly Man tend to believe he has the answers to everything, and we don't! it doesn't matter what one went to school for. if Jehovah God wants his Creations to go unharmed, it would be just that way. people say, then where is the Ark? they said the same thing concerning the Garden of Eden. saying if it can't be found, it was Never there. if Jehovah God doesn't want man to get their greedy, money making hands on it, he won't let it be found.
Jehovah God the Almighty, said that there was a flood, who am I to call him a liar. most importantly who should I put my trust in, imperfect men or a Perfect God? sadly when Jesus gets the go-ahead to destroy. (Rev. 19:11-16) and (Rev. 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon), it'll be too late for MANY of us to then believe. peace
You do NOT have a single word from God that has not passed through the imperfect men you do not trust. You have no clue what Jehovah said or did except through the interpretations and beliefs of those imperfect men. Get off your self-righteous high horses and get real. The only Truth about God a Christian has is the incarnate Jesus Christ and the "mind of Christ" as "born again" as the Comforter who abides with us, NOT the untested words of imperfect men.
Jesus perfectly lived, described, taught, revealed, and demonstrated God's Holy Spirit of perfect agape love and forgiveness unambiguously on the Cross. The imperfect men who recorded it, interpreted it as appeasement of the wrathful God they believed in from the OT and Moses. Those imperfect men were wrong and have been wrong ever since. There was no wrath or vengeance in Jesus Christ and there is no wrath or vengeance in His Father, God. But there are negative spiritual consequences for not living as much like Jesus as possible.
Jesus KNEW he was speaking on what actually had happened. true he was "making a Point." and that point was, you better get right! as he said ("JUST LIKE IN THE DAYS OF NOAH...",Matt. 24:37-30). it WASN'T just a "story" to Jesus, it was FACT! and geologist are imperfect humans like everyone else. it doesn't mean they are totally right in everything the believed or taught.
Jehovah God is the Creator of everything we see, including Man. sadly Man tend to believe he has the answers to everything, and we don't! it doesn't matter what one went to school for. if Jehovah God wants his Creations to go unharmed, it would be just that way. people say, then where is the Ark? they said the same thing concerning the Garden of Eden. saying if it can't be found, it was Never there. if Jehovah God doesn't want man to get their greedy, money making hands on it, he won't let it be found.
Jehovah God the Almighty, said that there was a flood, who am I to call him a liar. most importantly who should I put my trust in, imperfect men or a Perfect God? sadly when Jesus gets the go-ahead to destroy. (Rev. 19:11-16) and (Rev. 16:16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon), it'll be too late for MANY of us to then believe. peace
Sorry, but the geological evidence disproves a global flood. It never happened.
Sorry, but the geological evidence disproves a global flood. It never happened.
Jesus referred to the Prodigal Son too. But that didn't make him real.
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16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: 
