Did Jesus die for all? (churches, believe, scriptures, prayer)
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I believe that Jesus gave His life for all sinners. Past, present and future.
That doesn't mean that everyone will desire to be saved. Does that make the sacrafice of Christ powerless?
Clearly there are those that don't fit into one of the thousands of processes that the churches have adopted to say you are saved. Yet i know of many that have never joined a church that live the teachings of Christ from within, rather than act it without.
How does man fit in with this gift from Jesus- the Only begotten Son of God.
Can man save his brothers and sisters? What is the biblical and spiritual context of people thinking that they can do the job that Jesus already did.
As well, not all that are salvaged will inherit the same mansion (symbolic of position and power). Jesus taught that there were the greatest and the least in the kingdom. So salvation clearly is not the completion of our faith. Why do some think that it is?
I believe that Jesus gave His life for all sinners. Past, present and future.
True.
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That doesn't mean that everyone will desire to be saved. Does that make the sacrafice of Christ powerless?
Salvation is available to "whosoever will." If they don't, they are responsible for the consequences of their own decision. That doesn't negate or detract from Christ or His sacrifice. The very idea that it could is absurd.
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Clearly there are those that don't fit into one of the thousands of processes that the churches have adopted to say you are saved. Yet i know of many that have never joined a church that live the teachings of Christ from within, rather than act it without.
That's because the church didn't develop, invent, create or put into action what it takes to be saved. The church can't save anyone. Only Jesus saves. So, unless a person goes through Jesus for their salvation, they won't be saved.
When a person is truly saved and their heart is truly regenerated, their behaviors change. They want to please God. To do that, they'll read the Word and be taught by the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn't say anything about "joining" a church, but it does say to meet, pray, fellowship, serve and worship together, collectively as the body of Christ. Thus, not attending church services is disobedience.
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How does man fit in with this gift from Jesus- the Only begotten Son of God.
Can man save his brothers and sisters? What is the biblical and spiritual context of people thinking that they can do the job that Jesus already did.
No. Only Jesus paid the price to save people. We can plant seeds, water them or be there for the harvesting, but make no mistake. No man saves anyone.
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As well, not all that are salvaged will inherit the same mansion (symbolic of position and power). Jesus taught that there were the greatest and the least in the kingdom. So salvation clearly is not the completion of our faith. Why do some think that it is?
godspeed,
freedom
Because the majority of churches fail to disciple people after they're saved. They get them to repeat a formulaic prayer, pronounced them saved and put them in the refrigerator while they go out to "save some more." It's a cattle call to increase the numbers they can claim as having "saved." People are left to figure everything out for themselves, but the problem is, they've already been pronounced "saved" by some popish person and they think they're fine now. They think they just have to come to church or read their Bible once in awhile and any relationship they have with God is formulaic in prayer and devotions, not personal. It's not real to them. They never experience God. They don't know how to read, study, interpret scriptures so they're scared and leave that to pastors and televangelist that they eventually watch on TV because, before too long, going to the church itself isn't satisfying them or they just get lazy and think they can just watch Joyce Meyer because they like her and what she says sounds good to them.
See the pattern? This is why so many people get fed-up with, hurt by, and feel abandoned by churches today. Church is all about the church's plans and special projects and new buildings and the inner circle. People don't feel included and God isn't present because He's not the center there. They can say they're doing all these things for God, but so did the Pharisees.
If a person's decision to make Jesus Lord of their life is real, it will stick instead of "wearing off" in a few weeks or months and the person is right back to living the sinful lifestyle they did before. A real decision for Christ does NOT require re-dedicating their life back to Christ over and over again. Continual repentence, yes, but not back-sliding and re-dedicating, back-sliding and re-dedicating, over and over again.
Salvation is available to "whosoever will." If they don't, they are responsible for the consequences of their own decision. That doesn't negate or detract from Christ or His sacrifice. The very idea that it could is absurd.
That's because the church didn't develop, invent, create or put into action what it takes to be saved. The church can't save anyone. Only Jesus saves. So, unless a person goes through Jesus for their salvation, they won't be saved.
When a person is truly saved and their heart is truly regenerated, their behaviors change. They want to please God. To do that, they'll read the Word and be taught by the Holy Spirit. The Bible doesn't say anything about "joining" a church, but it does say to meet, pray, fellowship, serve and worship together, collectively as the body of Christ. Thus, not attending church services is disobedience.
No. Only Jesus paid the price to save people. We can plant seeds, water them or be there for the harvesting, but make no mistake. No man saves anyone.
Because the majority of churches fail to disciple people after they're saved. They get them to repeat a formulaic prayer, pronounced them saved and put them in the refrigerator while they go out to "save some more." It's a cattle call to increase the numbers they can claim as having "saved." People are left to figure everything out for themselves, but the problem is, they've already been pronounced "saved" by some popish person and they think they're fine now. They think they just have to come to church or read their Bible once in awhile and any relationship they have with God is formulaic in prayer and devotions, not personal. It's not real to them. They never experience God. They don't know how to read, study, interpret scriptures so they're scared and leave that to pastors and televangelist that they eventually watch on TV because, before too long, going to the church itself isn't satisfying them or they just get lazy and think they can just watch Joyce Meyer because they like her and what she says sounds good to them.
See the pattern? This is why so many people get fed-up with, hurt by, and feel abandoned by churches today. Church is all about the church's plans and special projects and new buildings and the inner circle. People don't feel included and God isn't present because He's not the center there. They can say they're doing all these things for God, but so did the Pharisees.
If a person's decision to make Jesus Lord of their life is real, it will stick instead of "wearing off" in a few weeks or months and the person is right back to living the sinful lifestyle they did before. A real decision for Christ does NOT require re-dedicating their life back to Christ over and over again. Continual repentence, yes, but not back-sliding and re-dedicating, back-sliding and re-dedicating, over and over again.
Very well thought out and i completely agree with everything you have said except the bolded print.
Our family keeps the blessing of fellowship without attending a church service. We are able to let our light shine, and gather with many friends and family without having the modern church setting, i would say ours is more like the days of the disciples gathering in believers houses. We can observe tithing of our time and treasure, worship, and then go into our closets and sup with the lord, without the distractions of congregational variance.
I believe that Jesus gave His life for all sinners. Past, present and future.
That doesn't mean that everyone will desire to be saved. Does that make the sacrafice of Christ powerless?
Hi, I believe that Jesus died for all and that He will get all. All may not desire to be saved now, but I believe that they will eventually once all binders and blinders are removed. I believe that the desire to be saved is the work of God. Those who don't desire to be saved are blinded by sin, satan, self, are lost, deceived, held captive according to the scriptures. But even satan himself is a tool of God. If someone is not with Jesus, he or she is with satan. I believe that God sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world and that Jesus will accomplish the mission. If one remains separated from God from all of eternity due to the influence of the deceiver, the person forever remains an enemy of God, lost , and the will of God will not have been fully accomplished.
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Can man save his brothers and sisters? What is the biblical and spiritual context of people thinking that they can do the job that Jesus already did.
I believe that only God saves and He can and uses us as His instruments to reach others for Him.
God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 05-22-2008 at 03:13 PM..
"Hi, I believe that Jesus died for all and that He will get all. All may not desire to be saved now, but I believe that they will eventually once all binders and blinders are removed. I believe that the desire to be saved is the work of God. Those who don't desire to be saved are blinded by sin, satan, self, are lost, deceived, held captive according to the scriptures. But even satan himself is a tool of God. If someone is not with Jesus, he or she is with satan. I believe that God sent Jesus to be the Savior of the world and that Jesus will accomplish the mission. If one remains separated from God from all of eternity due to the influence of the deceiver, the person forever remains an enemy of God, lost , and the will of God will not have been fully accomplished."
That's rather confusing. Your first two sentences seem to say that one day everyone will be saved, but your last sentence indicates that some people won't.
I believe that Jesus gave His life for all sinners. Past, present and future.
That doesn't mean that everyone will desire to be saved. Does that make the sacrafice of Christ powerless?
Clearly there are those that don't fit into one of the thousands of processes that the churches have adopted to say you are saved. Yet i know of many that have never joined a church that live the teachings of Christ from within, rather than act it without.
How does man fit in with this gift from Jesus- the Only begotten Son of God.
Can man save his brothers and sisters? What is the biblical and spiritual context of people thinking that they can do the job that Jesus already did.
As well, not all that are salvaged will inherit the same mansion (symbolic of position and power). Jesus taught that there were the greatest and the least in the kingdom. So salvation clearly is not the completion of our faith. Why do some think that it is?
godspeed,
freedom
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for His sheep . . . I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold [Gentiles and all who are given to Him by the Father]; . . . they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."
The ever unrepentant and apostate Jews challenged Jesus: "If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered: "you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep [whom He died for!] . . . . My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
John 10
God so loved the world--that is mankind--that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes would not perished but have everlasting life. The "whosoevers" are those whom the Father has given Him. They become the whosoevers because He has called them. No one comes to Him except the Father draws Him! (John 6:44)
No one seeks God, no not one! There is none good, no not one! (Romans 1). We cannot be the whosoever unless God makes us a whosoever because we are DEAD in our trespasses and sins and are unable to seek Him!
"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for His sheep . . . I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have which are not of this fold [Gentiles and all who are given to Him by the Father]; . . . they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd."
The ever unrepentant and apostate Jews challenged Jesus: "If You are the Christ, tell us plainly." Jesus answered: "you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep [whom He died for!] . . . . My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."
John 10
God so loved the world--that is mankind--that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes would not perished but have everlasting life. The "whosoevers" are those whom the Father has given Him. They become the whosoevers because He has called them. No one comes to Him except the Father draws Him! (John 6:44)
No one seeks God, no not one! There is none good, no not one! (Romans 1). We cannot be the whosoever unless God makes us a whosoever because we are DEAD in our trespasses and sins and are unable to seek Him!
Preterist
Then why does God tell us to Ask, Seek and Knock. To Seek Him early that we might find Him.
Clearly there are those that don't fit into one of the thousands of processes that the churches have adopted to say you are saved. Yet i know of many that have never joined a church that live the teachings of Christ from within, rather than act it without.
If you are not acting it without, you are not living it within.
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As well, not all that are salvaged will inherit the same mansion (symbolic of position and power). Jesus taught that there were the greatest and the least in the kingdom.
The least and greatest are in this spiritual kingdom we as believers are in now... I do not believe this has to do with the world to come.. and if it would be, it would not be as a result of our own efforts but rather whatever God has granted to us to be. (think of the parable of the talents.. one had 5, one had 1. Each has to work with what they have.. and if we give of ourselves and serve, the person with 1 may be "greater" than the one with 5!
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So salvation clearly is not the completion of our faith. Why do some think that it is?
It is the completion of our perfection, but not of our responsibility.
Shana was saying that mans will does not override God's will. How I would put the last sentence is " If the belief of eternal torment is true and" if one remains separated from God for all of eternity due to the influence of the deceiver, the person forever remains an enemy of God, lost , and the will of God will not have been fully accomplished." that goes against scripture that says that God will be all in all.
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Confused
