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Old 05-01-2022, 01:43 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,797 posts, read 6,223,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
In church today, we read John 15.

Some may see the throwing of dead branches into the fire as punishment.

I don't
Agree


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA4rSO-h9Io
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Old 05-01-2022, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,298,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
What do you see it representing?
Simply stated:
Willful estrangement and disconnection.
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Old 05-01-2022, 01:50 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,713 posts, read 3,577,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
In church today, we read John 15.

Some may see the throwing of dead branches into the fire as punishment.

I don't
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej View Post
What do you see it representing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Christianity itself has ‘dead’ wood

How exactly do you punish something that is dead though?

I see the dead wood being related to the systemic/ritualistic/dogmatic/doctrinal type of things
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:06 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
19,769 posts, read 13,299,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Mordant, do you really think that this is the may most Christians relate to God, or are you just trying to make a point? This is seriously so far from how I see God that it's not even funny.
As MQ pointed out, I was just responding to how that particular poster relates to god.

I understand that many Christians ... quite probably most ... don't think that way, although, I do think if they don't resonate with the quoted verse, they will read it and yet sort of not see what it's literally urging the reader to do, to quake in terror of eternal hellfire and kiss the boots as it were. Exactly because it is dissonant with how they view god. I think the language of that verse is pretty plain though.

The way my tribe handled such things, FWIW, was via a hermaneutical system called dispensationalism. We would say that Psalm 2 was not from the "dispensation of grace" and so applicable, if at all, to today only in a sort of abstract sense rather than as literal advice or a command of some kind -- because god relates differently to humanity today than he did then. This still begs the question of what sort of deity you are dealing with, given that god is supposedly "the same yesterday, today and forever". But yes ... whether you call it dispensationalism or cherry picking or something else it is a verse you can -- to put it as nicely as possible -- de-emphasize.
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,119 posts, read 83,978,350 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oakback View Post
In church today, we read John 15.

Some may see the throwing of dead branches into the fire as punishment.

I don't
Hmm, I see it as something that looked dead to others getting a new life, new energy, as fire. It was not useful to others in the way they hoped, but it had a purpose in another way.
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:20 PM
 
8,039 posts, read 1,789,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
If you are truly a work in progress then stop telling people what you know as if it comes from God. You don't know He will squash people like a bug, you don't know He sent the Jews to Hell, you don't know, you don't know what you don't know.
I know what the Bible says and even though I am a work in progress, I am certain of specific doctrines in the Bible; such as the fact that those who work iniquity shall be cast into the furnace of fire where there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:41-42, 13:49-50).

And in 1 Thessalonians 2, we do find the doctrine that Jews (and Gentiles) who seek to inhibit the preaching of the gospel, wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Allrighty...but not sure what any of that has to do with what I posted and you quoted. I know what the Bible says without you reminding us at every turn how well you can quote it. We are all sufficiently impressed. Yay you.

You appear to have completely missed the point I was making that if more Christians replaced their eagerness to show off their Biblical memorization skills with some Jesuslike compassion, they would come closer to drawing others to Christ. You know, like what Paul said, without love, banging gong, clanging cymbal. I fortunately have been blessed to have known a number of Christians who could walk that walk and let the love of God shine through them.

It is one answer to the OP's question. Some cannot believe because they have never seen Christ visible in anyone.
I don't quote the Bible in order to try and impress anyone or to be able to get any kind of recognition. I know that in doing so I will be hated by people. The reason I quote the Bible is because I want people to go to heaven and I know that the word of the Lord doesn't return void (Isaiah 55:10-11).

I think that this is true regardless of whether I bring the word ultimately with tact or whether I am very blunt in my delivery.

I think that I do have Jesus-like compassion in my delivery of the word; in some cases using more tact than Jesus did, for example, in Matthew 23.
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Old 05-01-2022, 02:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,493 posts, read 7,298,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Hmm, I see it as something that looked dead to others getting a new life, new energy, as fire. It was not useful to others in the way they hoped, but it had a purpose in another way.
Interesting

Perhaps it speaks to christians. Otherwise what would be the problem? ( as i see it )

My fear is not heat. It's separation.

( edit: perhaps " fear " doesn't really convey what I'm trying to say. Ill have to come up with a better word. Perhaps i can get a little help from my friends )
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:02 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,713 posts, read 3,577,360 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Edit:. Dang, I meant to quote Meerkat

I read the Bible again a few years back with fresh eyes. I found it said very different things than what I had lead to believe. The Bible, according to what I was taught, told you how to be saved. It was full of condemnation and all the various ways a person could screw up. When I read it again is all I saw was "I got this. Don't fear. I got this." Since I was abused by people using God I could only be truly healed by God. Without that step I might be able to function but I would never have been healed.

I know you saw the same thing. Are we any different really apart from our conclusions? I see you and you see me. What else is there?
I agree, we (and I mean all of us) are not really different from each other at the essential human being level…. But we are all taught/indoctrinated with a lot of different things that do lead to very different conclusions, speculations, assumptions etc
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Alabama
13,446 posts, read 7,734,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8 View Post
Try it. Why do you want to be humble? Why do you want to be more like Christ? What is it you want out of being more like Christ? Wanting virtue is attached to the self. Christ was selfless.
I want to be humble because I was made for the purpose of Communion with God for eternity. I cannot achieve my purpose for existing if I do not have humility.

Saying that that's "selfish" or "attached to the self" is absurd. It's akin to saying that the tadpole is selfish for aspiring to become a frog.

There is nothing selfish about wanting to be the best you can be.
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Old 05-01-2022, 03:36 PM
 
Location: minnesota
15,797 posts, read 6,223,816 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
I want to be humble because I was made for the purpose of Communion with God for eternity. I cannot achieve my purpose for existing if I do not have humility.

Saying that that's "selfish" or "attached to the self" is absurd. It's akin to saying that the tadpole is selfish for aspiring to become a frog.

There is nothing selfish about wanting to be the best you can be.
Not that kind of selfless.
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