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yes TKRAMER, that's part of what i'm talking about. as well as intolerance of gay individuals, judgemental talk about others who some people in the church may not find to be "christian" enough for them, etc. i'm not gay myself, i'm married with 4 children, but i don't believe God loves any gay individual any less than He loves me, you know? i thought the whole idea was NOT to judge others. how is it my business what somebody else's relationship is with God? or to even assume i have any kind of right to judge how their own sexuality affects their salvation? i personally don't believe that God would turn away someone who accepted Him and loved Him, simply because they were gay, you know? also, some of the worst gossipers i've ever encountered in my entire life were those who were the most involved in their churches, thought of as the "perfect Christians", etc.
i understand everyone is fallible. i understand everyone makes mistakes. i guess what i'm talking about is the continued harshness from large portions of church congregations towards individuals in the community or even their church. i've heard DEACONS of churches, talking about how they can't stand those who "SAY they are christian, but don't live it"....as if they themselves are living it by talking about them?
and what you pointed out about the formality involved in going to church is something i notice too. that's why the casual churches can be really nice. i only found one, which was in my homestate, and unfortunately, i don't live there anymore.
somebody did mention the united church of christ though, and i read about them on their website. the information there, and from this individual, indicates that they are welcoming of everyone, and seem to try to advertise that they intend to provide a non-judgemental environment to worship. i think i might actually check out our local one tomorrow. maybe.
Issues with tolerance and acceptance of other people...I don't find tolerance and acceptance in churches I've visited...one church in particular, everyone dressed up, men in suits and ties.
I didn't own a suit or tie. I owned jeans and T-shirts.
What was that ad? "No matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you're welcome here."?
The first and greatest commandment is to Love the Lord thy God with all of your heart
and might,
This is all that you need to do,
Take your children to the house of God and lead at home by example; you are planting great seeds that will reap a plentiful harvest, how I wish that many children had parents who love the Lord;
So you are on the right track... join the club, I can identify your being cautious of selecting a place to fellowship with
other like minded true believers.
Paraphrasing Bishop T.D. Jakes " If you ever want to see how the world behave, just look in the church"
Most of all of us have some church hurts, and some have turned their backs on God
because they have had to weather a lot of hurt , pain and abuse in the church..some since childhood
As for me, I'd have to be mindful and careful not to make this reply into a doxology.
First of all Jesus hated what you describe, Paul's mission in the end was to go and admonish and warn the seven churches of Asia to return to their first love,
instead of doing all these superficial works, to clear their conscience and to make themselves righteous in the sight of God, when Jesus had completed the work at the cross, when he said "It is finished" ....
The is why the word let's us know in so many words that many will miss it , because
they will hear "depart from me you workers of iniquity, I never knew you.
I have some horrific experiences with" Church goers"........
I am still battling with the idea of finding that perfect loving Christiany" place to fellowship, there is no such place..
Don't lose heart my friend; and do not make the mistake of letting this apostasy make you resentful and bitter;
Be encouraged that you are not alone , most of us on cd have been wounded by these
type.
What I have to offer you is love as sister in Christ, as many here on this forum have
been there for me , when I was experiencing hurt and rejection by churchy folk.
I didn't stop seeking a place of fellowship, I had to look to Christ the "author and finisher
of our faith.
Have you had an opportunity to read my thread on "Sheep among wolves and goats....
this is just a sly and foxy way that the adversary, distracts and hopefully deter God's people from being where
they are supposed to be, he knows the scripture that commands us not to "forsake the fellowshipping with like mind believers" (paraphrased)
satan is well aware that in a congregation, praise and worship and strength for your spirit is there among the saints
and the Holy Spirit dwells among them , there's unity, and he likes confusion and division, so you will get discouraged
and back off, He knows where the power is and what it represent , and that is to glorify the Father in songs and praise and worship and draw spiritual strength from the wells of living water that flow through this assembling together.
Cleave to God and ask for the Holy Spirit to empower you with His annointing and you will see the difference.
as we are called to go into the world and spread the gospel, the church is just a filling station, to equip you to go out
again in the highways and trenches to speak and witness to those who are lost and dying...
Don't fall for his scheme and tricks, (condemnation and guilt)...
Go fellowship and step over the carnal minded believers and the wolves and give God the glory "Hallelujah, Shabach, Yada praise , even if you have to do it through tears... The devil wants us to give up, but don't for the sake of your children...tell them what's going on, they are better discerners than we are at times.....
Love, your sister in Christ Jesus
If God be for us, who can come against us? and succeed"? Selah
He promised that He would never leave us or forsake us.
God Bless You
Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 05-31-2008 at 06:39 PM..
I've read through some of the posts here - not all of them, but would like to interject a comment or two here if I could....
I believe that church is relationship. First of all relationship with the Father and with the Lord Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit helping us in that relationship. Secondly it is relationship with the members of Christ's Body.
Notice I said relationship!
It is NOT, as some might think it is, going to a particular building and getting with a particular group of people professing to be Christians on a particular day of the week. It is relationship with God and with members of His Body.
I can have relationship with members of His Body on this forum. At a restaurant. While driving. While going to the movies.
The relationship that I have with the Father and with His Body can manifest itself in many different ways and at many different times. Not just on Sunday mornings and Wednesday nights.
Just as me and my friends don't exercise our relationship on a given day and time of the week so too, we can exercise our relationship with God and with one another as the opportunity or need presents itself. Throughout the week.
I don't even have to go to any particular building or get with any particular group of professing Christians on Sundays but, and this is key, I can still be involved in relationship with the Father and with members of the Lord's Body. THAT is church.
It seems to me that we need to get away from the mistaken notion that church is what happens in a building on Sundays (or whever the "church" meets). I am not quite sure where this idea of church as a building came from but it could have come from the Catholic influence that was present before the Reformation. Where great big, ornate, incredible church buildings were built as a "house" for the Lord and became the center of church life.
Church on Sundays is quite convenient in the sense that if we equate that with church we can then live for ourselves the rest of the week. Until the following Sunday when we can "die to self" and sacrifice a couple of hours to go sit and listen again.
Church as relationship with God and with one another is a whole different ball game. Relationship takes committment. One cannot have relationship with God unless they are willing to surrender to Him as God and repent from known sin. And we cannot have relationship, Christian relationship, with each other unless we have relationship with Him.
Yes Pippi I have felt the way you do many times but like you I have given up on finding a church, especially one that welcomes Gods presence in but I have come to believe if you have a real relationship with Jesus Christ he is with us where ever we go, I can worship God anywhere it doesen't have to be a building called a church we are the church and He has promised to never leave nor forsake us....we just have to be sure we are making Him welcome in our lives no matter where we worship Him.
Sorry but this sounds like pride. No I never feel like that. You may need to examine yourself because these are all God's children and this is a sign of bearing fruit, when we grow in the Lord we seek out other Christians. You better get used to them because you will spend eternity with them.
Old saying, If you ever find the perfect church, keep moving because you will only mess things up.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 01-22-2009 at 08:00 PM..
Sorry but this sounds like pride. No I never feel like that. You may need to examine yourself because these are all God's children and this is a sign of bearing fruit, when we grow in the Lord we seek out other Christians. You better get used to them because you will spend eternity with them.
Old saying, If you ever find the perfect church, keep moving because you will only mess things up.
Yes it does sound like pride...and by the way I make it a habit to examine myself now its your turn for even saying such a thing and only God knows if they are His children and I know where I stand with God I don't need people who go at one another all the time to tell me who did what to who. My relationship with God is far more important than with people like this. I don't need a pastor who watches Porn on the church computer in his spare time. Being a Christian isn't about how many times you warmed a pew in church this month. Besides there are Christian people in other parts of life besides the building you call church.
Do I feel like I don't fit in? Oh yes, quite a bit. I'm as orthodox as they come, but at the same time....
I've had homeschooling moms suggest that I quit teaching because the "anti-god" public schools are "no place for a christian" and "God can't use you there"
I've had Christian Republicans get up in my face when I say positive things about Democrats. (Not a Dem BTW)
I've wrestled very deeply about whether or not to drink a glass of wine at dinner, because some baptist preacher said it was wrong.
I've had young earth creationists look at me appalled when I say that I don't care whether the earth is 10 thousand or 10 billion years old.
I've had people tell me that I need to find a woman and have children because being single is "irresponsible"
I've been critiqued because sometimes I approach things logically in addition to biblically.
I've been called "too accommodating" because I have good relationships with people outside my tradition and faith.
But despite it, I love them all. When you get right down to it...and I mean right down to it, we are brothers and sisters--one universal church that transcends all but the most essential doctrines. And as Peter said, love covers over many wrongs. Did these things offend me? You bet! Does my "outside the box" mentality get to me sometimes? Oh yeah. But all of these same people have committed acts of incredible kindness toward me. I know they love me, even if I'm an "outside the box" christian, because I have adhered to the historic doctrines of the faith, to the Bible and have borne fruit through good works.
Do you want to know about love? Try going to the same church week after week, year after year. Outside of marriage, that's the best teacher of love. And Fundamentalist was right. We'll all be stuck with each other for eternity, whether we like it or not
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