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hiram,i myself if i were lds would have a problem reconciling why the book of morman [which is supposed to be a translation of an ancient inspired text]would condemn polygomy while the doctrine and covenants[which were supposed to be direct revelations to the prophet]would pretty much seem to command it.'my' understanding of their position is that 'God justified it for a time''my speculation on why God might do so would be that it would be the quickest way to quickly grow the ranks of the 'restored church' as its easier to have people 'born into a faith' then convert them from another.of course on the other side people [including some prominent early mormans]would speculate that joseph smith had poor selfcontrol around women and invented the 'revelation' to justify his bad behavior in that respect.his son ,joseph smith 3,who led the rlds for a half century believed and stated that the revelation regarding polygomy was false.i would assume that the sidney rigdon/james bickerton church of christ[bickertonite] splinter group disregards the doctrine and covenants and pearl of great price for some of these reasons also.the book of morman,taken on its own is pretty consistant within itself whether you feel it is inspired by God or made up out of whole cloth.most of the contridictions that i have noticed seem to be found between the bom and /the d&c and pogp.in fairness there are seemingly contridictory verses in the bible also,though i think many perhaps most of them are due to poor translation.since i am not lds i cant speak for them and perhaps some of them will choose to clarify some of the confusion.i think the whole polygomy 'revelation' really hurt the growth of the morman church[though it has still been pretty sucessful].i'm really not sure how current lds members feel on the subject or how they would justify/reconcile/explain it.perhaps someone who is lds would like to give their 'take 'on the subject
imbobbbb Thanks, advice taken! So lets look at Polygamy then and what Mormons say about it, then we will look at what the bible and scripture says. I say "scripture" and that is because we may have to go to the Greek to understand it fully. To get the real meaning of some words. Now, you said in the past that we can't go on what their prophets, and apostles say outside of the Mormon books. Well, I will have to disagree with you. If they are a prophet then we will have to take that as "truth". But we will of course test that truth with the word of God. And let us not be too confused as to where we will find that. To begin with lets look at what Brigham Young said. He was the head apostle of his time, as he was the President and held this position longer then any other candidate in the Mormon realm.
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses 11:269)
Now lets look at what their books say and the discrepancy and contradictions between them. They might say that the bible contradicts itself. But God says that we "can" know the truth.
John 8:32 "And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."
The words of the Lord are pure:
Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD [are] pure words, [Like] silver tried in a furnace of earth, Purified seven times.
We don't have to be tossed around with every piece of doctrine.
Ephesians 4:14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,
Forever learning:
2 Timothy 3:7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Much of the scripture is easy to understand:
Galatians 1:6-10 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.
Polygamy Condemned
Book of Mormon
Jacob 1:15
15 And now it came to pass that the people of Nephi, under the reign of the second king, began to grow hard in their hearts, and indulge themselves somewhat in wicked practices, such as like unto David of old desiring many wives and concubines, and also Solomon, his son.
Jacob 2:24
24 Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord.
Jacob 3:5
5 Behold, the Lamanites your brethren, whom ye hate because of their filthiness and the cursing which hath come upon their skins, are more righteous than you; for they have not forgotten the commandment of the Lord, which was given unto our father—that they should have save it were one wife, and concubines they should have none, and there should not be whoredoms committed among them.
Mosiah 11:2
2 For behold, he did not keep the commandments of God, but he did walk after the desires of his own heart. And he had many wives and concubines. And he did cause his people to commit sin, and do that which was abominable in the sight of the Lord. Yea, and they did commit whoredoms and all manner of wickedness.
Polygamy Commanded
Doctrine and Covenants
Section 132:1
1 Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph, that inasmuch as you have inquired of my hand to know and understand wherein I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines—
Section 132:37-39
37 Abraham received concubines, and they bore him children; and it was accounted unto him for righteousness, because they were given unto him, and he abode in my law; as Isaac also and Jacob did none other things than that which they were commanded; and because they did none other things than that which they were commanded, they have entered into their exaltation, according to the promises, and sit upon thrones, and are not angels but are gods.
38 David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.
39 David's wives and concubines were given unto him of me, by the hand of Nathan, my servant, and others of the prophets who had the keys of this power; and in none of these things did he sin against me save in the case of Uriah and his wife; and, therefore he hath fallen from his exaltation, and received his portion; and he shall not inherit them out of the world, for I gave them unto another, saith the Lord.
Section 132:61
61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.
So lets look at these verses from Mormon texts and consider their message and next we will look at bible and scripture to determine the truth of the matter.
Hiram,
You are mistaken in the "contradictions" you try to portray as you take quotes out of context.
As just one example, the passage in Jacob 2:23-30 in the Book of Mormon (as with other passages in scripture) condemns plural marriage. However, as its final verse we read:
Jacob 2:30
"For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people (to participate in plural marriage); otherwise they shall hearken unto these things." (the command to abstain from plural marriage). (Parenthetic statements added).
As mentioned before, there are "exceptions to the rules" found throughout the scriptures, to include the Bible (even though you adamently denied this, a fact which makes me seriously question how thouroughly you have even studied the Bible). All of these exceptions however, can still be explained by the higher "rule" to "follow the Lord."
There was a time when plural marriage was commanded of the Lord for some of the earlier members of His church in this dispensation. Such is no longer the case and in fact is strictly punishable by excommunication. If you use the fact that there were some in the early LDS church which participated in plural marriage as your basis for rejecting the church, you must also reject the Bible, as many ancient prophets also participated in this practice.
Certainly, I have by no means proven that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true (nor was such my intent), and I have not fully explained all of the Church's positions (the church website and/or missionaries are available for that). However, I think what has become clear is that you can not be trusted as a reliable source of information regarding any topics concerning the LDS church.
Engaging with you in a conversation regarding these matters appears to be fruitless.
Church began in 147BC (Mosiah 18:17) Church began in 33 AD (Matthew 16:18, Acts 2)
Alma 46:13-16, supposedly written in 73BC, refers to Nephites as Christians "disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" 40AD (Acts 11:26)
Joe Smith is head of Mormon church (D&C 28:2-6) Jesus is only head of church (Colossians 1:18)
"He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem" (Alma 7:10) "Jesus was born in Bethlehem" (Matthew 2:1 + Matthew 21:17)
3 Days of darkness at crucifixion (Hel 14:20-27) 3 hours of darkness at crucifixion (Luke 23:44)
God has flesh and bones like man: (D&C 130:22) God is spirit without flesh &bones (John 4:24, Luke 24:39)
Matthew 16:18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
As we can read, Christ's assembly was built on a rock, it has a solid foundation. Satan will tell you a lie as he did in the Garden of Eden. This does not change today.
Book of Mormon contradicts historical fact and science
Indians wrote many official records (Hel 3:13), scrolls (Mor 5:23) and other writings (Mor 9:2; 2 Nephi 9:18) Indians never wrote books but used simple pictures to communicate
North American Indians are descended from Jews Being "mongoloid", are descended from east Asia (*now with DNA testing, that is a fact)
God cursed Indians with dark skin. Anyone who marries Indian shall get dark skin too (2 Nephi 5:21-23; Jacob 3:3-9; Mormon 5:15-17; Alma 3:6-10) If this were true, there would be no part Indians, only full-blooded Indians. The statement is genetically false
When Indians accept Mormon teachings they will become, "white and delightsome people" (2 Nephi 30:5-7; 3 Nephi 2:15) This is white supremacist racism and implies a correlation between skin colour and righteousness (at one time, Mormons wouldn't baptize Negroes)
Horses, cows, oxen & asses were all native to North America (1 Nephi 18:25) Horses, cows, oxen & asses were all introduced to by European settlers after Columbus
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, today, and forever.
(NKJV) James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
Church began in 147BC (Mosiah 18:17) Church began in 33 AD (Matthew 16:18, Acts 2)
It is important to read the scriptures in toto. To be technical, the Church of Christ existed before the creation of the world . It first started with mortals with Adam. The above two references both refer to times of renewal in different parts of the world. The Gospel is Eternal.
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Alma 46:13-16, supposedly written in 73BC, refers to Nephites as Christians "disciples were first called Christians in Antioch" 40AD (Acts 11:26)
The disciples in the middle-east were first called Christians in Antioch at approximately 40 AD, at least during that dispensation.
The disciples in America were given this nickname earlier. The followers of Christ in America also apparantely knew the name of Christ at an earlier date than at least most of the Jews in Jerusalem.
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Joe Smith is head of Mormon church (D&C 28:2-6) Jesus is only head of church (Colossians 1:18)
Again. You enjoy taking quotes out of context, or leaving out pertinent parts (or more likely, you haven't actually read the above quotes other than as printed in your anti-mormon tracts). How about if we read D&C 28:2-7 instead of 2-6. I will just quote the last two verses.
6 And thou shalt not command him who is at thy head, and at the head of the church;
7 For I have given him the keys of the mysteries, and the revelations which are sealed, until I shall appoint unto them another in his stead.
Clearly, as Christ is the one giving the keys and revelations as well as appointing the mortal leader, He is ultimately the Head of the Church.
The prophet of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints guides the church under the direction of Christ, He being the "Chief Cornerstone."
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"He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem" (Alma 7:10) "Jesus was born in Bethlehem" (Matthew 2:1 + Matthew 21:17)
Ahhh... another favorite of anti-Mormons. How about if we endeavor again on reading a little farther?
Alma 7:10
"And behold, he shall be born of Mary, at Jerusalem which is the land of our forefathers...
Alma was referring to the region around and to include Jerusalem, or the land of Jerusalem. He was not referring to the precise city, as is clearly defined in this verse. Keep in mind, Alma was speaking to a group of people that left the land of Jerusalem over 500 years prior. Bethlehem is a mere 5 miles away from the city of Jerusalem, and would, along with the other surrounding towns certainly have been considered part of the land of Jerusalem. The fact that this is phrased the way it is, I find to be an even greater evidence that the Book of Mormon is not contrived.
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3 Days of darkness at crucifixion (Hel 14:20-27) 3 hours of darkness at crucifixion (Luke 23:44)
The people in the Americas experienced a tremendous amount of "natural disasters" as a sign of Christ's death, to include 3 days of darkness (likely a result of volcanic ash, tremendously powerful earthquakes which "changed the face of the land" etc). The people in the region of Jerusalem experienced 3 hours of darkness (likely a very severe storm) and an earthquake as well (where was the epicenter?... an interesting thought).
So your point is?...
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God has flesh and bones like man: (D&C 130:22) God is spirit without flesh &bones (John 4:24, Luke 24:39)
How about if we read the entire reference.
D&C 130:22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
In John 5:19 we read, "Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise."
Luke 24:39, which you mentioned above states, "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."
If we combine truths from John 5:19 and Luke 24:39, would it not stand to reason that the Father and Son both have bodies of flesh and bone?
I believe Jesus to be God. I also believe Jesus to have followed the Father in all things. They both have bodies of flesh and bone, within which is Spirit.
The Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit only.
John 4:24 would be more accurately translated as "God is Spirit..." rather than "God is a Spirit."
Nothing in the above facts changes the fact that God is Spirit... so are we, clothed with mortal (as opposed to immortal and glorified) bodies of flesh, bone AND blood.
To follow your logic to its completion, let us please read John 4:24 completely as rendered in the KJV. "God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."
Are we then to separate our spirits from our bodies every time we worship God? I don't believe so.
Genesis states that we were created in the image of God. (Genesis 1:27). I believe this.
The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are One God in purpose, but three separate individuals in substance (not one shift-changing substance).
All three are spiritual beings (meaning their spirit sustains and gives them life... not supported through other mortal/transient means). However, only the Father and Son have bodies of flesh and bone which clothe their Spirits. I don't find anything contradictory in this truth with John 4:24.
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Matthew 16:18 `And I also say to thee, that thou art a rock, and upon this rock I will build my assembly, and gates of Hades shall not prevail against it;
As we can read, Christ's assembly was built on a rock, it has a solid foundation. Satan will tell you a lie as he did in the Garden of Eden. This does not change today.
The term rock as applied here can be interpreted in two ways. Lets read the entire reference, from Matthew 15:15-19.
15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Interpretation 1: the word "ROCK" refers to Peter and the keys he was given. Peter was given the keys of the kingdom of heaven. He was the chief apostle and prophet to the Church after Christ was resurrected. The Catholics presume that he passed on these same keys, or authority to those after him, all the way to their current Pope. Therefore, any whom have broken off from them must not be the actual Church of Christ as they haven't received the keys that Peter received, and thus aren't built on this Rock.
Interpretation 2: The word "Rock" in the passage above refers to the rock of revelation. Peter had it revealed to him by the Father that Jesus was the Christ (see verse 17). We know from other scriptures that this testimony is given by the Holy Ghost. It is upon this testimony, given by the Spirit of God, that the Church of Christ is built.
In fact both interpretations I believe to be correct, other than that the keys Peter was given were not passed on in a continual succession after him. They were lost at some point after all of the apostles were killed off. A process we call the apostasy.
In 1829, Peter, James and John appeared to Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery and conferred upon them the authority and keys which they possessed. Therefore, the gates of hell didn't prevail against Christ's church. Additionally, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints continues to grow as its individual members gain a knowledge from their Father in Heaven, through the power of the Holy Ghost that Jesus is the Christ, (THE ROCK OF REVELATION). Upon this "rock" His church is founded and the gates of hell haven't prevailed against it.
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Book of Mormon contradicts historical fact and science
We have already seen how thourough you are with the other "contradictions" you claim.
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Indians wrote many official records (Hel 3:13), scrolls (Mor 5:23) and other writings (Mor 9:2; 2 Nephi 9:18) Indians never wrote books but used simple pictures to communicate
It is a known fact that the Ancient Americans were far more sophisticated than you say, and in fact they did have forms of writing which has been proven. Ancient Mesoamerican Writing
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North American Indians are descended from Jews Being "mongoloid", are descended from east Asia (*now with DNA testing, that is a fact)
The "DNA evidence" you outline is not nearly as clear-cut as you would make it out to be. It certainly is not proof that the Book of Mormon is not true.
The links at the bottom of this page are interesting too.
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God cursed Indians with dark skin. Anyone who marries Indian shall get dark skin too (2 Nephi 5:21-23; Jacob 3:3-9; Mormon 5:15-17; Alma 3:6-10) If this were true, there would be no part Indians, only full-blooded Indians. The statement is genetically false
Don't even try to play the genetics expert. Those whom have married American Indians tend to have darker skinned offspring. This effect dissipipates over time (or would increase over time) depending on the lineage that the children of that union marry into. Perhaps this is part of the reason for what we find stated in 3 Nephi 2:15 (see your next statement below).
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When Indians accept Mormon teachings they will become, "white and delightsome people" (2 Nephi 30:5-7; 3 Nephi 2:15) This is white supremacist racism and implies a correlation between skin colour and righteousness (at one time, Mormons wouldn't baptize Negroes)
The prophecy in 2 Nephi you mention may have more to do with the state of the spirit than the skin. The current edition of the Book of Mormon states, "pure and delightsome."
In 3 Nephi it does state that the Lamanites dwelling among the Nephites became white. Perhaps in part this was due to extended intermarriage. (We see the same thing now with those whom are 1/2 Caucasion, 1/2 American Indian, vs 1/4 vs. 1/8, etc.).
Regarding racism, baptism, etc., again, you have your facts wrong. "American Indians" were never barred from any of the privileges of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to include holding the Melchizedek Priesthood. Such would have been expected if the Church ever correlated skin color with righteousness. Negroes have also never been refused baptism, though there was a ban on males of African descent holding the priesthood until 1978. However, doctrinally skin color wasn't the issue. (Actually, there were some African American males in the very early days of the church whom held the priestood as well. However, this is a completely different topic).
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Horses, cows, oxen & asses were all native to North America (1 Nephi 18:25) Horses, cows, oxen & asses were all introduced to by European settlers after Columbus
In fact again, you are wrong. Even if horses were entirely extinct by the time Columbus arrived, they certainly were here before that. Fossil evidence prooves this. You may argue that Carbon dating doesn't fit the time frame. However, it probably doesn't fit the time frame that you doubtless believe for the temporal existence of man on this earth, etc.
Horses and The Book of Mormon (http://www.2s2.com/chapmanresearch/user/documents/horses.html - broken link)
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Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ [is] the same yesterday, today, and forever.
We agree. Thus one reason why He continues to be a God of revelation.
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(NKJV) James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.
[/quote]
I also agree.
I do in fact know that God the Father lives and is our Heavenly Father.
I know Jesus Christ lives. He is my Savior and My God. He, like His Father, has a body of Flesh and Bones, Clothing his also immortal and Glorious Spirit.
I know Joseph Smith is a true prophet of God.
The Holy Ghost, the third member of the Godhead whom does not possess a body of flesh and bone has borne witness of the truthfulness of these matters to my soul.
Through the plan of Salvation, as Children of God, we can mature to become like our Father (certainly not in any way usurp our Father), through His power and grace, which he gives us fully as we have faith in Him, repent and follow Him. Cleansing from sin as well as being resurrected in glorious, immortal bodies of flesh and bone are all part of this process.
John 17: 20-21 "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou Father , art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us..."
And again in Romans 8:16-18, "The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. For I reckon that the suffereings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us."
And again, in the Book of Revelation 3:21, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne."
I'm going to have to sign off as I don't have time to continue to try and discuss so many arguments based on 1/2 truths, incomplete information, hatred and/or bigotry (whether by yourself or the tracts you have probably read, I'm not sure). Further information can be obtained at Mormon.org or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for those whom are interested. I wish you the best and hope that someday your heart will be softened, at least to the extent that you can approach others outside of your exact set of beliefs with a sense of respect.
JNHarris QUOTE]Don't even try to play the genetics expert. Those whom have married American Indians tend to have darker skinned offspring. This effect dissipipates over time (or would increase over time) depending on the lineage that the children of that union marry into. Perhaps this is part of the reason for what we find stated in 3 Nephi 2:15 (see your next statement below).
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The prophecy in 2 Nephi you mention may have more to do with the state of the spirit than the skin. The current edition of the Book of Mormon states, "pure and delightsome."
In 3 Nephi it does state that the Lamanites dwelling among the Nephites became white. Perhaps in part this was due to extended intermarriage. (We see the same thing now with those whom are 1/2 Caucasion, 1/2 American Indian, vs 1/4 vs. 1/8, etc.).
Regarding racism, baptism, etc., again, you have your facts wrong. "American Indians" were never barred from any of the privileges of membership in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, to include holding the Melchizedek Priesthood. Such would have been expected if the Church ever correlated skin color with righteousness. Negroes have also never been refused baptism, though there was a ban on males of African descent holding the priesthood until 1978. However, doctrinally skin color wasn't the issue. (Actually, there were some African American males in the very early days of the church whom held the priestood as well. However, this is a completely different topic).
I wasn't trying to play any expert. I have been blood typing and sending DNA samples of my cattle for many years now for parentage verification. Also I have cross bred a lot too with different colors.
I remember sometime back, before I started to investigate God's will, some Mormon Elders came to the house to show me the way. 19 year old boys, elders yes, but not in Christ's spiritual kingdom of course. Just young kids. I had an old Book of Mormon in the house and I whipped it out, and right away they said we couldn't use it. They had a more "updated " version. I thought to myself at the time rather odd, does God's word change.
The tithe, and Melchizedek Priesthood officially passed away August 10, in the year 70 A.D., when the Jewish temple was destroyed by the Romans. There would have been no more need to give tithe to support a temple or priesthood or ministry or religion that no longer existed, and that God deemed mute.
Hebrews 5 8-13 though He was a Son, [yet] He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek," of whom we have much to say, and hard to explain, since you have become dull of hearing. For though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need [someone] to teach you again the first principles of the oracles of God; and you have come to need milk and not solid food. For everyone who partakes [only] of milk [is] unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe.
Christ is the high priest, we do not need another. And His kingdom is spiritual.
hiram NONE of the quotes you noted with the exception of the one regarding a star named kolob come from 'morman scripture' and im not sure why whether or not there is a star named kolob near heaven is particularly important to anything.
imbobbbb``` Hey, lets take a break from what we were doing and get back to the main "theme" of the topic. You were wondering about the planet KOLOB. That it didn't really have any significance. God says that all his words are to be taken serious. Although this is not the word of the God of Abraham, but of another God, we will look at it.
We can find "Kolob" strung out throughout the movie industry. Remember, occultists, Masons, etc run the movie industry. Notice a great number of movies being made about the occult? Narnia, Lord of the Rings, etc. I think that there is no question as to whether J Smith was a Mason.
Here is the beginning tract from a New Zealand based children's program.
The theme of children's program "Children of the Dog Star".
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On holiday at her uncle's farm in New Zealand, Gretchen befriends Ronny, a Māori boy with a troubled city past, and Bevis the birdwatching son of a loathed developer. Tension is already high as the developer wants to buy and drain a local swamp for a housing estate, but Ronny's uncle is the guardian of a traditional Māori tapu (taboo/curse) upon the swamp. The swamp must not be touched—something sleeps there that must not be awakened. Something unnatural.
Gradually, the children discover the pieces of an ancient alien space probe named Kolob. During the series they assemble the missing parts and strange things start to happen. The probe was one of three sent to earth to educate the human race in science. In the end a communication link is set up with the star Sirius B, from where the probe came, and the aliens tell them they should not have interfered.
In the opening tract you can see once again the illuminati, Masonic pyramid, that is also on the back of your one dollar bill in case you haven't noticed.
Ancient Egyptians called Sirius the 'Dog Star', after their god Osiris, whose head in pictograms resembled that of a dog. In Egypt, Sirius shines for most of the summer, and since it is such a bright star, the Egyptians actually believed that the additional light from this nearby star was responsible for the summer heat. This of course is not true. However the origin of the phrase 'the dog days of summer' comes from this ancient belief, the 'dog star' being the root of this common saying.
Esoteric writing is instilled much in Mormonism, Hollywood, and many other writings. Actually, the book I recommended to you by Albert Pike, Morals, and Dogma, would be very near impossible to understand, because of the esoteric writing.
Mormon Church have a song "If You Could Hie to Kolob". It sings of multiple Gods, as certainly there are in the Mormon community, as well as the occult.
Kolob was the name of a short-lived record label/production company founded by the Osmond Brothers in the 1970s. Released in association with MGM Records (which was absorbed by Polydor in 1976), the logo consisted of a hand holding a ball of clay resembling the planet. The Osmonds also recorded an album called The Plan which deals with themes in Mormonism related to Kolob.
Osmonds are Mormon, are they Mason?
Remember, Masons use religion and as a smoke screen.
They throw obvious facts in our faces, knowing we won't wake up, and they are to somehow gain some type of power through this.
Welcome down the Rabbit hole
This is the world of the unveiling. Everything that looked one way on the other side ... now looks different. A thing becomes its inverse. What you THOUGHT was the case is not the case. As you wander in the warrens of The Rabbit Hole, you develop new vision. What all this seems to add up to is not pleasant to contemplate. However, the longer one spends in The Rabbit Hole, the more all the tunnels seem to connect to one another. Most people on this planet believe in the essential goodness of life and that success comes to those who are dedicated and work hard. Yet the issues outlined above all have one thing in common -- . We are being led by our innocence into what can only be summed up as our own genocide, and we are participating in the walk with ignorance and blind trust.
I have to take a break from all this now. Imagine... what...
Ill have more proof explaining Osiris, the dog star, the Occult and how Kolob is more then just an accident, placed in the Mormon scripture. Kolob is Osiris, the God of the underworld. You'll have to understand, the ancient Egyptians, Babylonians, etc. worshipped this star Osiris. He is their lord. Their God. This tradition is carried on from then to today. From the great pyramids of Egypt, to the pyramids of the Mayas and Incas, to the Masonic pyramid, it goes back in history. The all seeing eye has been around for a long time.
uh...ok hiram.well i think i need a break from this thread myself.i will though follow through on your suggestion to investigate the 'masons' more than i have up to this point.
Jesus said "It Is Finished" on the cross and said not one word can be added to the bible. The Mormons believe things totally against the bible. Lord have mercy.
I hate to tell you this, but all of the New Testament was written after Jesus was on the cross.
imbobbbb There is a post called //www.city-data.com/forum/relig...in-sacred.html
This is a fine example of how the Masons, and many other secret societies, which are all the same thing and worship the same God have infiltrated organized religion. It is the Occult. This circle is satanic to the core, and Masons have an influence in all man made religion at one level or another. Many people who "claim" to be religious are having fun in that thread. This is the age of "New Age Religion". The circle has a lot of symbolism and is very important to the occult. It is important for them if they can get the public involved in performing their religious ceremonies, then they feel they have a victory, in bringing people further from God. And again, they feel that they are getting power from this 'Open", in your face activity. Here are two album covers from The Alan Parsons project. One is "Eye in the Sky". But the other one I want to take more special look at it is a serpent, and it's tail is in its mouth, forming a circle. Have a look for yourself at this page on occult "symbolism" and do a word search on it for circle, and see its importance. It goes deeper then this, but it will give you a good idea of what it is all about. As I said in a previous post, the outer circles of these groups appear to be religious, worshipping God, and it gives the inner circles their protection as they practice their satanism. The inner circle have the masses brain washed into thinking they are worshipping God and instill, all the same, some very anti God and unorthodox ideals. Don't be fooled.
Quote:
A ring is a circle, a central occultic symbol. It represents the eternal and cyclical nature of the universe and the occultic belief in the perfection of mankind through reincarnation. At the same time, it symbolizes the sun which bestows light upon mankind. To the Illuminati, 'light' means knowledge, their source of power. The circle is often depicted as a serpent chasing its tail, (an 'ouroroboros') because man was tempted to acquire knowledge by the serpent in the Garden of Eden
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Mormon contradictions
