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View Poll Results: What do you believe about Christ's Second Coming, as prophecied in Matthew 24 & 25?
I believe that it is a past event (please explain by post) 15 13.39%
I believe it is an event to come, signaling the end of time and the judgement 37 33.04%
I believe it is an event to come, but there will be a space of time after this before the end of time and judgement. 29 25.89%
I don't know.. but I want to be ready! 17 15.18%
Other (please explain by post) 14 12.50%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-04-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,586,236 times
Reputation: 851

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
Byron,
Thanks to Hiram, i came upon more verses about hell fire:
If you read these - one at a time - it's obvious in most of them that God's 'burning anger' is a metaphor for judgments occurring in this lifetime, that is, on the earth to the living. The results are generally the same - the recipients end up dead (in the grave/sheol).

Like most traditionalists, you take every verse about any wrathful judgment and equate it with a burning hell in the afterlife. This is not rightly dividing the scriptures.

I was hoping you would study out the terms/contexts involved and gain freedom from the quagmire of tradition. If not - maybe this link will help.
Origins of the Word Hell (http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_origins_of_the_word_hell.htm - broken link)
It's always better to study it out for yourself though.

blessings,
- Byron
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Old 07-04-2008, 04:58 PM
 
10 posts, read 13,423 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
You have allowed yourself to be inhabited with doctrine of demons! Because you have turn your ears away from the truth, and allow yourself to be turned aside to fables.

By your own admission, you once new the truth. By your own admission, you cast aside truth to be self taught. By your own admission, you became a Preterist before you even knew what the word meant. And by your own admission, you have become a slave of corruption. Turn back before it's to late!
Now, these yous and yours that you're using...are they in reference to Preterist himself, or are they directing at some kind of "Preterist" person 2,000 years into the future?
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Old 07-04-2008, 05:28 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,415,535 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
If you read these - one at a time - it's obvious in most of them that God's 'burning anger' is a metaphor for judgments occurring in this lifetime, that is, on the earth to the living. The results are generally the same - the recipients end up dead (in the grave/sheol).

Like most traditionalists, you take every verse about any wrathful judgment and equate it with a burning hell in the afterlife. This is not rightly dividing the scriptures.

I was hoping you would study out the terms/contexts involved and gain freedom from the quagmire of tradition. If not - maybe this link will help.
Origins of the Word Hell (http://www.heavendwellers.com/hd_origins_of_the_word_hell.htm - broken link)
It's always better to study it out for yourself though.

blessings,
- Byron
The only obvious thing is those who believe believe Gods Word and those who do not. "Tradition" excuse is a metaphor for "Did God really say?". No one is in the grave eternally; "Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?".

John 8:51
"I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death."

If you're right, do you plan on dying? Is Jesus lying? Or is there a different death? Maybe a second death?

As a side note, I'm going to turn down your invitation to study out the terms. What you might see as freedom, I see slavery. I have no desire to eat the forbidden fruit, Gods Word willl do.
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Old 07-04-2008, 05:55 PM
 
348 posts, read 554,697 times
Reputation: 58
Default Proud men

Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
You only prove my point about people who need to use "inaccuracies" about the KJV translation as the basis for their reasoning. Those who come from that view, is beyond reasonable conversation.

I have no doubt you think you have the same insight as those who have DR. degrees. Unless you substantiate that your knowledge is from creditable sources besides from the preterists wanna be's kitchen table, your quoting Greek has no impression.

I will say again, the problem is with doubting Gods Word, not KJV. I am instructed to do this to you:

"Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh."

I hope for your sake that you will enter heaven as if the very hairs on the back of your neck has been singed from fleeing a burning building.



There's only one school mentioned in scripture, and that was a school of a tyrant (Acts 19:9). And a "degree" is a Masonic concept, not a scriptural one.
It takes more than education to make a real man.

"That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Corinthians 2:5). I am not at all concerned about certificates of recognition from "recognized" seminaries. Having a certificate does not mean that one is more qualified than one who knows the same thing (or more) without a certificate. In the end it is the knowledge, wisdom, and understanding given by God and how we apply it, which qualifies us - not a piece of paper saying "I passed the test of men."

Proud men of degrees are, too often, a detriment to Christ and His assembly, because they introduce leaven into God's Word, so as to make it more palatable. God's Word has largely been lost to those who continue to partake of modern watered-down Christianity. So, if you are a proud man of degrees and schooling, know that God is not a respecter of persons (Romans 2:11), and therefore, your degrees mean nothing to Him, and mean nothing to His servants. What is written on your heart and in your mind is more important than what's written on a man-made document.

We fall into error when we praise men for their adherence to the ways of God, rather than praise God for the work he does in and through men. He shows his Mighty Works through his people.


In Hebrews 9:26 the KJV says, "But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."

Please read the above very carefully!


The end of the world has not come, yet Christ has already appeared. Therefore this is a false statement. The New American Standard Bible (NASB) says "but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested." It was at the end of the Old Testament ages that Christ appeared, not at the end of the world. The KJV mistranslates this Greek word aion as world. The word means age. The KJV does this about 40 times. Each time is a mistake and misleads the reader.


twin.spin OK, give an answer for the above please. Don't give an excuse. Were here to learn. Is scripture not important to you? I don't think you can answer it. It is a legitimate question.
Or do you just want to escape the question and slander me some more.

How can the end of the world have taken place when Christ gave himself as a sacrafice? As Hebrews 9:26 states? KJV

Proverbs 13:10 Only by pride cometh contention: but with the well advised is wisdom.

Proverbs 15:28 The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things.
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Old 07-04-2008, 06:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
4,346 posts, read 6,586,236 times
Reputation: 851
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin View Post
The only obvious thing is those who believe believe Gods Word and those who do not. "Tradition" excuse is a metaphor for "Did God really say?". No one is in the grave eternally; "Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?".
Jonah 2:6, I went down to the bottom of the mountain; the earth with her bars were about me forever; yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption. ...

{2:3} And he said: “I cried out to the Lord from my tribulation, and he heeded me. From the belly of hell, I cried out, and you heeded my voice.

Okay, there - I've put out the bread crumbs for you to follow. If you are pleased to stay where you are then that's your choice and I will respect that....

blessings,
- Byron

Last edited by firstborn888; 07-04-2008 at 06:02 PM.. Reason: fix quotes
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:15 PM
 
Location: USA
322 posts, read 735,303 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Clear contradiction. Why do the nations need Satan to deceived them? Isn't that the origin of sin? SATAN? Sin and Satan go hand in hand.
To have destroyed Satan is to have destroyed sin. You state, that Satan was fully crushed "under the feet" of those persecuted saints?" And the nations are now being deceived by sinful men? But sin was destroyed, because Christ has already come! Is this the hogwash you're really trying to disburse to people that are truly seeking to find God? I urge you to stop Preterist! Stop it! You have allowed yourself to be inhabited with doctrine of demons! Because you have turn your ears away from the truth, and allow yourself to be turned aside to fables.

By your own admission, you once new the truth. By your own admission, you cast aside truth to be self taught. By your own admission, you became a Preterist before you even knew what the word meant. And by your own admission, you have become a slave of corruption. Turn back before it's to late!

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. (2 Peter Chapter 2 Versus 20-21).


Right on Betsey! Thank GOD you are not decieved, but look forward to the appearing of our LORD JESUS!
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Old 07-04-2008, 08:34 PM
 
Location: God's Country
22,995 posts, read 34,256,841 times
Reputation: 31627
Quote:
Originally Posted by joedrsaved View Post
Right on Betsey! Thank GOD you are not decieved, but look forward to the appearing of our LORD JESUS!
I'm not deceived either and I am looking forward to the return of Jesus!!
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Old 07-04-2008, 09:42 PM
 
Location: USA
322 posts, read 735,303 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I'm not deceived either and I am looking forward to the return of Jesus!!
Amen!
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Old 07-04-2008, 10:15 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,479,001 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
Clear contradiction. Why do the nations need Satan to deceived them? Isn't that the origin of sin? SATAN? Sin and Satan go hand in hand.
To have destroyed Satan is to have destroyed sin. You state, that Satan was fully crushed "under the feet" of those persecuted saints?" And the nations are now being deceived by sinful men? But sin was destroyed, because Christ has already come! Is this the hogwash you're really trying to disburse to people that are truly seeking to find God? I urge you to stop Preterist! Stop it! You have allowed yourself to be inhabited with doctrine of demons! Because you have turn your ears away from the truth, and allow yourself to be turned aside to fables.

By your own admission, you once new the truth. By your own admission, you cast aside truth to be self taught. By your own admission, you became a Preterist before you even knew what the word meant. And by your own admission, you have become a slave of corruption. Turn back before it's to late!

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.

For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. (2 Peter Chapter 2 Versus 20-21).
Please stop misusing Scriptures against fellow believers! You have no right and no justification for applying this verse to me or anyone else on this board who sincerely names the name of Christ.

I will no longer respond to you. You do not base your arguments on Scripture but rather on opinion. You accuse your fellow believers of having doctrines of demons. That is totally out of line. You are irrational and moved by your emotions and not by truth.

I could again post simply the very words of the Bible, but what good would that do? In spite of the fact that have frequently posted simply the words of the Jesus Himself, you accuse me of turning aside to fables--another example of how you take verses out of context and throw them at your fellow believers! When, please tell me, did I somehow admit to becoming "a slave of corruption."

The fact is this, Betsey Lane, you do not seem to know your own Bible since you rarely do more than snatch verses out of context or repeat the teachings you have been taught in your church. It is such an approach to the Word of God that leads to error. Yet, to you, studying the Word for one's self is justification for accusing that one of turning away his ears to truth!

If it is a crime, as you have stated, for someone to study the very words of the Bible and through one's own personal indepth and spirit-led study come to the truths therein, then I am guilty as charged.

I can no longer tolerate the total irrationality on these threads. No one wants to do Bible study--most simply want to speculate and exchange thoughts on the latest newspaper exegesis being done these days.

I have attempted to start thread in which we could actually look at God's Word, but there have been no takers.

Again, I warn you with as much love as I can muster, do not misuse God's Word and do not falsely accuse your fellow believers of things for which they are not guilty. Shame on you, Betsey Lane.

Furthermore, Betsey Lane, SIN comes from our own total depravity. All Satan has ever done was appeal to that depravity. SIN does not go away if Satan goes away. We are sinners, period. And sinners SIN!

IN CHRIST, Preterist

p.s. Are there any on this board who want to truly study God's Word apart from the doctrines of men?




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Old 07-05-2008, 01:00 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,825 posts, read 12,415,535 times
Reputation: 1319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
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The end of the world has not come, yet Christ has already appeared. Therefore this is a false statement. The New American Standard Bible (NASB) says "but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested." It was at the end of the Old Testament ages that Christ appeared, not at the end of the world. The KJV mistranslates this Greek word aion as world. The word means age. The KJV does this about 40 times. Each time is a mistake and misleads the reader.


twin.spin OK, give an answer for the above please. Don't give an excuse. Were here to learn. Is scripture not important to you? I don't think you can answer it. It is a legitimate question.
Or do you just want to escape the question and slander me some more.

How can the end of the world have taken place when Christ gave himself as a sacrafice? As Hebrews 9:26 states? KJV

In Hebrews 9:26 the KJV says, "But now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
Well, well....your KJV isn't the same as my KJV. The KJV I use has it written this way.

KJV Hebrews 9:26 "Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. "But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself."

It is well documented that Masons, JW's, Mormons have "their" version of the KJV. If you are in one of the M-J-M's, or in a small cult that would explain why your KJV is what it is. If you are not in one of those, then I would encourage you to examine if the KJV you're referrencing to is from those sources and dispose of it.

To answer your question, the world hasn't ended yet. Jesus appeared once for the AGES (plural) to do away with sin. His second appearence marks the end of the world, which has yet to take place.
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