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Originally Posted by curlythecosmo Yes, most definitely I am a believer in Jesus Christ. Does that bother you? I'm not afraid of your intimidation and accusations, because that is all it is! God is the judge of my life, not you! He knows what is in my heart, not you! Some wise advice for you is that you need to read what you have just posted! Because what has been measured out, Preterist, it is coming right back at ya!!!
Blessings have a wonderful day!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------- originally posted by Preterist
Reread your first post, curlythecosmo--YOU were accusing me of not having faith! I did not judge what was in your heart--I cautioned you to be careful about what you accuse others!
I was not trying to intimidate. Read your post,curlythecosmo. It is filled with empty philosophy and not the fruit of personal Bible study. That is what I am encouraging you and others to do--personal, serious Bible study not the "sharing" of opinions."
Did you or did you not thoroughly investigate Hebrews 4 before you attempted to apply it to ME?
No, I said preterism is not of faith! Not, preterist, ones post name! Reread it yourself..... All the way through my post it is stated preterism!
No, I didn't accuse one of anything......I only took from one's own worded statement as an example for preterism being rooted in unbelief. It is one's own heart that is standing and accusing it's self.....
One has accused those who believe in pre-mil, pre-trib, dispensationalism and so on, in being incorrect and not according to the scripture.
One has been posting to everyone they are wrong and throwing ones reasoning and discrediting the scripture of their faith in their hearts.......
When one is actually calling God stupid!
Because He is the one who has given us the faith to believe, that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and died for our sins, and has risen and now sitting at the right hand of the Father, interceding for our lives.
He is coming again to judge sin and the world. When, I do not know, but I am not worried.
For I know in Whom, I have believed. He will keep us until that day of His glorious return. For He said, He will never leave us, nor forsake us. That He has gone to prepare a place for us and will return. In the same matter that He left.
So because my reasoning does not match up to another's, I'm accused of empty philosophy, a bunch of goobledygoof, I don't like to reason and that I can't. My faith is a bunch of lame statements?
Hello....... Tell Jesus for me, OK? Maybe He will send His Holy Spirit to gift me in reasoning, philosophy, and cleanse all the gobbledygoof, and lame statements from my heart!
This is not judging what is in one's heart? And telling God who created me, and whom gave me the gift of salvation by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ, lame, and etc?
Read it here; I have it:
Now Preterist, tell Jesus that the faith He has given me and other's is nonsensical and resorts to empty philosophical. Because they don't agree with Preterism!
My original post was a obsevation of what preterism is...... and I still stand and believe it is unbelief.....
Quote: Original quote: Preterist
Quote:
As a new believer, I was taught pre-mil, pre-trib., dispensationalism. That was all I knew. I became well versed in all the events of the "end times"--the 1000-year reign, the anti-Christ, the beast of Revelation, the resurrection, the great battle of Armageddon, and the burning up of the heavens and the earth. Maybe you're smarter than I am, but I was troubled by the fact that I really had to force and twist the Scriptures to coordinate all of these things, often grabbing verses from here and there to hold it all together. I decided one day to cast it all aside and start fresh. I wanted to know for myself without anyone's else input, what saith the Scriptures. It took me many years to study my way to preterism--in fact, I became a preterist before I even knew what that word meant!
Apology gladly accepted and forgiveness granted, Curly. I am going to leave this board for awhile as I do not find people who truly want to study God's Word--and that does include the study of every word. They ARE important and necessary!
It is not preterism per se, Curly, that I have been trying to expound but serious, in-depth study of God's Word. Yes, we have the Holy Spirit--He guides us but we must also do hard work.
When our Lord says something, we need to try with everything in us to understand what He is saying. That includes word studies and cross-referencing and learning about the conditions in the times during which the words were written.
I have said many times that EVERYTHING I believe is up for dispute. But I will not change my mind unless and until someone proves from the Word where I have erred. What I have gotten here is name calling and opinions from people who will not directly address the issues that have been raised.
It is the futurists on this board who cling tenaciously to their position and refuse to even see the plausibility of another's position. To agree with any of them is to be labeled an heretic and outside the faith!
I apologize if I have overstepped the line of decency at any time and may have offended anyone. But I will not recant of presenting the Word of God as it is plainly written. Let us all know not just what we believe but why we believe it. That takes hard work and an openness to the truths of the Bible and an willingness to listen to others--really listen.
I am always cautious in what I present as a truth from God's Word. I often study passages before and after the one I am looking at. I want to know what those of THAT day were experiencing. I want to understand how they must have felt and why letters and prophecies were written to them. Once I have gotten a good handle on that, THEN I begin to make applications to my own life.
I shared with someone here how I did a personal Bible study to attempt to discern God's Word for myself and was lambasted for it and accused of leaving the faith because my diligent and in-depth study led me to a preterist understanding!
It is impossible to reason with the unreasonable. People seem to come here to gain confirmation for their preconceived ideas. They do not want to learn; they do not want to consider the arguments of others; they do not even want to present their own perspective logically and reasonably from the Scriptures! I have attempted to start other threads for those who want to get beyond the milk of the Word and into the meat, but so far, I have had no takers.
I have never claimed to have all the answers, but I will search and search and study and study to get as close to that as I can!
In Christ, Preterist
Thank You... Preterist! I humbly and sincerely am thankful! The thought in my heart of ever hurting another human soul I could not live with.
I would not asked you to change your mind about anything. That is between you and the Heavenly Father.
My responsibility before Him is to love all He brings into my life regardless who they maybe or believe. I respect your choices and do hope even though our indifferences as we pass by one another on this forum I pray we could be friends.
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo Yes, most definitely I am a believer in Jesus Christ. Does that bother you? I'm not afraid of your intimidation and accusations, because that is all it is! God is the judge of my life, not you! He knows what is in my heart, not you! Some wise advice for you is that you need to read what you have just posted! Because what has been measured out, Preterist, it is coming right back at ya!!!
Blessings have a wonderful day!!!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------------- originally posted by Preterist
Reread your first post, curlythecosmo--YOU were accusing me of not having faith! I did not judge what was in your heart--I cautioned you to be careful about what you accuse others!
I was not trying to intimidate. Read your post,curlythecosmo. It is filled with empty philosophy and not the fruit of personal Bible study. That is what I am encouraging you and others to do--personal, serious Bible study not the "sharing" of opinions."
Did you or did you not thoroughly investigate Hebrews 4 before you attempted to apply it to ME?
No, I said preterism is not of faith! Not, preterist, ones post name! Reread it yourself..... All the way through my post it is stated preterism!
No, I didn't accuse one of anything......I only took from one's own worded statement as an example for preterism being rooted in unbelief. It is one's own heart that is standing and accusing it's self.....
One has accused those who believe in pre-mil, pre-trib, dispensationalism and so on, in being incorrect and not according to the scripture.
One has been posting to everyone they are wrong and throwing ones reasoning and discrediting the scripture of their faith in their hearts.......
When one is actually calling God stupid!
Because He is the one who has given us the faith to believe, that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and died for our sins, and has risen and now sitting at the right hand of the Father, interceding for our lives.
He is coming again to judge sin and the world. When, I do not know, but I am not worried.
For I know in Whom, I have believed. He will keep us until that day of His glorious return. For He said, He will never leave us, nor forsake us. That He has gone to prepare a place for us and will return. In the same matter that He left.
So because my reasoning does not match up to another's, I'm accused of empty philosophy, a bunch of goobledygoof, I don't like to reason and that I can't. My faith is a bunch of lame statements?
Hello....... Tell Jesus for me, OK? Maybe He will send His Holy Spirit to gift me in reasoning, philosophy, and cleanse all the gobbledygoof, and lame statements from my heart!
This is not judging what is in one's heart? And telling God who created me, and whom gave me the gift of salvation by His grace through faith in Jesus Christ, lame, and etc?
Read it here; I have it:
Now Preterist, tell Jesus that the faith He has given me and other's is nonsensical and resorts to empty philosophical. Because they don't agree with Preterism!
My original post was a obsevation of what preterism is...... and I still stand and believe it is unbelief.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist
Please stop misusing Scriptures against fellow believers! You have no right and no justification for applying this verse to me or anyone else on this board who sincerely names the name of Christ.
I will no longer respond to you. You do not base your arguments on Scripture but rather on opinion. You accuse your fellow believers of having doctrines of demons. That is totally out of line. You are irrational and moved by your emotions and not by truth.
I could again post simply the very words of the Bible, but what good would that do? In spite of the fact that have frequently posted simply the words of the Jesus Himself, you accuse me of turning aside to fables--another example of how you take verses out of context and throw them at your fellow believers! When, please tell me, did I somehow admit to becoming "a slave of corruption."
The fact is this, Betsey Lane, you do not seem to know your own Bible since you rarely do more than snatch verses out of context or repeat the teachings you have been taught in your church. It is such an approach to the Word of God that leads to error. Yet, to you, studying the Word for one's self is justification for accusing that one of turning away his ears to truth!
If it is a crime, as you have stated, for someone to study the very words of the Bible and through one's own personal indepth and spirit-led study come to the truths therein, then I am guilty as charged.
I can no longer tolerate the total irrationality on these threads. No one wants to do Bible study--most simply want to speculate and exchange thoughts on the latest newspaper exegesis being done these days.
I have attempted to start thread in which we could actually look at God's Word, but there have been no takers.
Again, I warn you with as much love as I can muster, do not misuse God's Word and do not falsely accuse your fellow believers of things for which they are not guilty. Shame on you, Betsey Lane.
Furthermore, Betsey Lane, SIN comes from our own total depravity. All Satan has ever done was appeal to that depravity. SIN does not go away if Satan goes away. We are sinners, period. And sinners SIN!
IN CHRIST, Preterist
p.s. Are there any on this board who want to truly study God's Word apart from the doctrines of men?
You self taught yourself, according to your own confession. Now you are ready to study God's Words with people that are truly seeking to find God?
It's apparent that "self study" has done you more harm than good. It's apparent that you need to start at the very beginning of the Book.
God created the heavens and the earth and everything thereof. He created man in His image! God is not sinful and has never been! This was perfection that God Created.
Let's skip a few versus: Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to tend it and keep it. And the Lord of God commanded the man, saying, "Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; but of the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die."
Satan/sin existed. Sin had to have existed in order to tempt man. Satan, the Serpent, the Dragon, Evil, the Devil, Lucifer are all one one and the same!
To say that Christ had already come, yet sin remains, what was the purpose? The purpose of His coming. "Sin does not go away if Satan goes away?" You are grasping at straws. Trying to make sense of nonsense.
You yourself admit that you are self taught. Well you haven't done yourself any justice. You are not ready to teach others! You were not called to be a teacher, professing that false doctrine: The Christ has already come! I refuse to apologize for warning others about this doctrine of demons!
You have willfully turn your own ears away from the truth. The Jehovah witnesses believe that each one of them are the 144,000. And you are professing that Christ has already come. Yet the bible clearly states: Thatall eyes shall behold him. All nations tongues and tribes.That He is coming on clouds of glory. A literal event. Yet you continue to sprout that He has come already and forgot to do away with sin. Blasphemy! I rebuke you Satan in the name of the lord Jesus Christ! May the Good Lord have mercy on your soul! Turn back before it's to late! Turn back.
To say that Christ had already come, yet sin remains, what was the purpose? The purpose of His coming. "Sin does not go away if Satan goes away?" You are grasping at straws. Trying to make sense of nonsense.
Sin is not of Satan. Sin means one thing: falling short of God's yardstick for perfection. Christ did not take away evil nature, Christ took away God's yardstick and brought forth a New Covenant. You plainly can not see that, because you think sin = evil nature. It doesn't.
Quote:
Yet the bible clearly states: Thatall eyes shall behold him. All nations tongues and tribes.That He is coming on clouds of glory. A literal event. Yet you continue to sprout that He has come already and forgot to do away with sin.
Actually, it is you who have not read the Scriptures, Old or New Testaments.
Do you have any idea what it means when "all eyes shall behold him"? It surely doesn't mean ALL eyes in the entire WORLD. Coming on the clouds does not mean literally, because Scripture is quoted in the Old Testament that God came on the clouds many times to vanquish the opponents of His People, and not ONE did God actually come on the clouds. The term "Coming on the clouds" is one that made sense to the 1st Century Jews. It means "to be with the power of God."
There is a GREAT article rebuking your inane argument that this was a literal prophecy. That article is by Don Preston, and he produces excellent refutation using the Scripture and only the Scripture to prove you wrong. Go read eschatology.org - Every Eye Shall See Him . It also explains the "every eye will see" and all that mumbo jumbo that you spew venomously because you are truly afraid for your faith.
Quote:
Blasphemy! I rebuke you Satan in the name of the lord Jesus Christ! May the Good Lord have mercy on your soul! Turn back before it's to late! Turn back.
Egad, not one of you Pentecostals again. You rebuke in the name of the Lord? From what I can tell, you have absolutely no personal strength based on Scripture, you only have what you've learned from the cult leaders who taught you this disparate view of the Scripture.
Go read the New Testament and mark every place where propechy was fulfilled. Then go to the Old Testament and look up that prophecy.
When you can't understand something in the New Testament, see if the Old Testament ever used the EXACT SAME PHRASE, and then see what the context is.
It is so sad that you waste your time on this perfect earth spewing this nonsense, and probably teaching the next generation more madness.
It's over, brothers and sisters. Christ came. Sin was vanquished. God reigns. Christ sits at the right hand, in Heaven. Stop living for the future and instead live for today. There are many people who need you, not to torment them with fear, but to love them as God loves you.
Apology gladly accepted and forgiveness granted, Curly. I am going to leave this board for awhile as I do not find people who truly want to study God's Word--and that does include the study of every word. They ARE important and necessary!
Preterist: Be careful confusing the Holy Scriptures with God's Word. God's Word is Jesus, as defined in the Scriptures over and over and over again. God's Word is NOT the Scriptures, this is a mistake many Christians make. God's Word (Jesus) is perfect. God's Scriptures are mistranslated often by man, so Scripture can not be perfectly infallible because the translations do not jive with one another sometimes. God's Word (Jesus) is infallible.
Quote:
It is the futurists on this board who cling tenaciously to their position and refuse to even see the plausibility of another's position. To agree with any of them is to be labeled an heretic and outside the faith!
Futurists have been taught their hilarious and destructive fiction by a few men who have been trained to lie and spew garbage. Dobson. LaHaye. Hinn. These men have wrought great power out of the fear that comes from Futurism. It is easy to confuse simple-minded people, especially when you start from birth as many Futurists are brought up from. It's sad to see the kids singing the songs of worship that slowly program their young minds to believing mumbo jumbo and political hoo-ha.
Quote:
I have never claimed to have all the answers, but I will search and search and study and study to get as close to that as I can!
No one needs to have all the answers because with time, and study, answers will come.
Revelation is a book that is plain as day for me now, but yes there are passages that I am still partially confused about. To my Futurists friends (I have a Revelation Bible study every Sunday at a Futurist congregation), they are confused about the entire thing. Many Futurists actually believe in a real Beast and take it so literally that they're lost to discern the reality that it's all over. It's fun to watch their eyes pop open when they realize that they've succumbed to just accepting everything their "pastor" says as truth, even though he was in their same confused shoes not long before.
People who go to "church" are rarely able to grasp the amazing connections in the Scripture. It's sad. They want to be fed by hand rather than feed themselves. "Bible study" groups focus on pre-existing books and study guides that force-feed more junk into the soft minds of those who don't want to dig in themselves.
There is so much hope, though, but I find it easier to teach the Preterist philosophy to atheists who later become Preterist Christians than to teach the same philosophy to Futurists who don't want their entire Christian lives to be in vain for promoting false doctrine to others and living under false doctrine.
Thanks for your words, Preterist, you'll be missed.
Preterist: Be careful confusing the Holy Scriptures with God's Word. God's Word is Jesus, as defined in the Scriptures over and over and over again. God's Word is NOT the Scriptures, this is a mistake many Christians make. God's Word (Jesus) is perfect. God's Scriptures are mistranslated often by man, so Scripture can not be perfectly infallible because the translations do not jive with one another sometimes. God's Word (Jesus) is infallible.
Futurists have been taught their hilarious and destructive fiction by a few men who have been trained to lie and spew garbage. Dobson. LaHaye. Hinn. These men have wrought great power out of the fear that comes from Futurism. It is easy to confuse simple-minded people, especially when you start from birth as many Futurists are brought up from. It's sad to see the kids singing the songs of worship that slowly program their young minds to believing mumbo jumbo and political hoo-ha.
No one needs to have all the answers because with time, and study, answers will come.
Revelation is a book that is plain as day for me now, but yes there are passages that I am still partially confused about. To my Futurists friends (I have a Revelation Bible study every Sunday at a Futurist congregation), they are confused about the entire thing. Many Futurists actually believe in a real Beast and take it so literally that they're lost to discern the reality that it's all over. It's fun to watch their eyes pop open when they realize that they've succumbed to just accepting everything their "pastor" says as truth, even though he was in their same confused shoes not long before.
People who go to "church" are rarely able to grasp the amazing connections in the Scripture. It's sad. They want to be fed by hand rather than feed themselves. "Bible study" groups focus on pre-existing books and study guides that force-feed more junk into the soft minds of those who don't want to dig in themselves.
There is so much hope, though, but I find it easier to teach the Preterist philosophy to atheists who later become Preterist Christians than to teach the same philosophy to Futurists who don't want their entire Christian lives to be in vain for promoting false doctrine to others and living under false doctrine.
Thanks for your words, Preterist, you'll be missed.
Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
Deuteronomy 9:1 "Then the LORD delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God, and on them [were] all the words which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire in the day of the assembly.
Matthew 4:4 But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.' "
Christ was referring to the Old Testament in the above, as the New did not exist at the time.
There is a manuscript still in existence today that was around during the time of Christ in the first century. The Septuagint (also known as the LXX - the Greek Old Testament) WAS translated from the original Hebrew Text, 285 years before Christ, into the language that was then predominant in the world, Greek!
1 John 4:5, "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world…"
As scripture says, those who are of the world speak of the world, and use the words of the world. By using the words of the world, or by using the words of another kingdom, you identify yourself as being of that kingdom. And, since the word "Christian" is a term of the world, it might be best to use the words of God to describe us.
When JESUS suddenly appears on the clouds of glory in the sky clearly visible to all, How are you preterist going to explain that? I'd like to hear your answer now, since you're not going to have time then to create one, and I'm going to be praising JESUS and not intrested in your answer.
When JESUS suddenly appears on the clouds of glory in the sky clearly visible to all, How are you preterist going to explain that? I'd like to hear your answer now, since you're not going to have time then to create one, and I'm going to be praising JESUS and not intrested in your answer.
As I responded in another thread to you, here I will abstain. You are obviously in bliss of your ignorance of scripture and church history so I/we will not confuse you with facts.
Blissings
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The Coming on the Clouds
