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If you believe that Satan is in charge of our earth, would it stand to reason that perhaps the whole cosmos "fell" along with our particular planet?
Perhaps some of the other planets in our solar system were originally habitable, or developing in that direction, when the adversary redirected them to be unfit. Mars, for example, is thought to have once had an atmosphere and water.
Why is it so difficult to find other habitable planets? Do you think it's possible that the adversary had a hand in the way the whole Universe developed? I mean, space is extremely hostile, so what if it wasn't always that way, what if it had its own "Eden"?
Just speculation here....I don't need science thrown at me as I believe all the science but just wondering if "the fall" was perhaps wider than this earth.
I don't believe there was a fall. The Genesis creation stories (there are two different stories) are not actual history and never happened, and that includes the 'fall' of Genesis chapter 3. Since it is obvious that man was not created in the way that Genesis tells it, there is no reason to believe the biblical account of a 'fall' resulting in an original sin that corrupted not only earth, but the entire universe.
I do believe that Satan, the fallen angels, and the demons are evil entities who are enemies of God and man, and that Jesus had to take care of, and that was part of the reason Jesus went to the cross.
If you believe that Satan is in charge of our earth, would it stand to reason that perhaps the whole cosmos "fell" along with our particular planet?
Perhaps some of the other planets in our solar system were originally habitable, or developing in that direction, when the adversary redirected them to be unfit. Mars, for example, is thought to have once had an atmosphere and water.
Why is it so difficult to find other habitable planets? Do you think it's possible that the adversary had a hand in the way the whole Universe developed? I mean, space is extremely hostile, so what if it wasn't always that way, what if it had its own "Eden"?
Just speculation here....I don't need science thrown at me as I believe all the science but just wondering if "the fall" was perhaps wider than this earth.
For me - no
I just don’t see that “the fall” was about the physical planet/planets it was more about the human social and political and religious environments and the Holy Scriptures use natural terms and references about intellectual, emotional, social, religious, political ‘things’ and relationships
the recordings in the Old Testament were looking forward prophetically to ‘the time’ that this would begin to happen
The cosmos/world has an original type of formation in Adam and the new creation in Christ and the 2 overlay each other dimensionally making a type of universe here on earth
We need to be able to ‘map’ the various parts correctly - of what/when the beginning is and what/when the end is and how long this takes and also be aware of the references of what the universe is composed of, where our allegiance is to be as well (and also the meaning in the symbols - rocks, water, serpents, sheep, wolves, etc)
Mat 8:18**Now when Jesus saw great multitudes about him, he gave commandment to depart unto the other side.
Mat 8:19**And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.
Mat 8:20**And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head.
Mat 8:21**And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.
Mat 8:22**But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.
Mat 10:16**Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
Mat 10:17**But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
Rev 17:15**And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
Rev 17:16**And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
The general times that Christianity use are 6000 years and 2000 years ago John in his revelation records the appointed time was at hand
We are now at the end of a specific 2000 years period
In the creation story after the 6 Days of creation comes a 7th Day of rest/sabbath
2Pe 3:3**Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4**And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Pe 3:5**For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6**Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7**But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2Pe 3:8**But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2Pe 3:9**The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
the true story of the Lucifer Rebellion is quite interesting.
1. The Leaders of Rebellion
53:1.1 (601.3) Lucifer was not an ascendant being; he was a created Son of the local universe, and of him it was said: “You were perfect in all your ways from the day you were created till unrighteousness was found in you.” Many times had he been in counsel with the Most Highs of Edentia. And Lucifer reigned “upon the holy mountain of God,” the administrative mount of Jerusem, for he was the chief executive of a great system of 607 inhabited worlds.
God created the cosmos, not Satan. The latter may have fouled up things to a limited sense, but nothing huge and enormous along the lines of the cosmos. Truthfully, looking microscopically to macroscopically, most is good.
Let's not give the enemy more power than he could ever possibly have. I've gotta wonder if people are secretly or unconsciously trying to be his agents. This kind of Satan-is-powerful crap creates all sorts of trouble.
Jesus has spiritual authority over the heavens and the earth, and demons, spiritual wickedness of the high places, and powers of darkness are defeated foes to the Lord since the cross of Jesus Christ....... these defeated foes pollute the earth along with the spirits UFO and big foot spirits and weather manipulator spirits are a menace to man and the earth, But Jesus can rip these spirit out off their place and send them down to the bottomless pit when His followers engage in faith with God
God created the cosmos, not Satan. The latter may have fouled up things to a limited sense, but nothing huge and enormous along the lines of the cosmos. Truthfully, looking microscopically to macroscopically, most is good.
Let's not give the enemy more power than he could ever possibly have. I've gotta wonder if people are secretly or unconsciously trying to be his agents. This kind of Satan-is-powerful crap creates all sorts of trouble.
Of course. I did not imply otherwise. But Jesus himself said that Satan has control over this earth (which is why all gov'ts become corrupt, IMO) so it's not a huge stretch to think that control extends to natural disasters like volcanos, landslides, earthquakes. Nature: Red in tooth and claw. Not how God intended.
Part of the principalities and powers free will could be to upset the natural systems with the power God gave them. He can "turn it to good" but they can use their immense power to do lots of evil.
I just got to thinking that maybe is why the Universe is not more hospitable, lol. Could be....
Jesus has spiritual authority over the heavens and the earth, and demons, spiritual wickedness of the high places, and powers of darkness are defeated foes to the Lord since the cross of Jesus Christ....... these defeated foes pollute the earth along with the spirits UFO and big foot spirits and weather manipulator spirits are a menace to man and the earth, But Jesus can rip these spirit out off their place and send them down to the bottomless pit when His followers engage in faith with God
Yes, Jesus can and will and has already done that. But we are in that current tension of "already-not yet" so the evil ones can still wield authority until the end comes.
I don't believe there was a fall. The Genesis creation stories (there are two different stories) are not actual history and never happened, and that includes the 'fall' of Genesis chapter 3. Since it is obvious that man was not created in the way that Genesis tells it, there is no reason to believe the biblical account of a 'fall' resulting in an original sin that corrupted not only earth, but the entire universe.
I do believe that Satan, the fallen angels, and the demons are evil entities who are enemies of God and man, and that Jesus had to take care of, and that was part of the reason Jesus went to the cross.
I agree with your last paragraph. Jesus had to defeat Satan on the cross---that was the objective. But the angels and Satan DID fall, so there was THAT fall, right?
The original sin concept bothers me, so I tend to agree it was Satan who "fell" (and his cohorts) and caused God's perfect creation to become corrupt, not OUR "original sin".
Why almighty God allowed that, is the great mystery....
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