Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-31-2023, 04:52 PM
Status: "Save the children of Gaza" (set 1 hour ago)
 
Location: St. Louis Park, MN
7,723 posts, read 6,355,253 times
Reputation: 10382

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
Well, at least forced into pretending to believe, as in the Inquisition, to save one's own life. The story of the Conversos, or Cryoto-Jews, of the Americsn southwest is interesting.

Similarly, on the old AOL message boards, I had some conversations with a group of Jewish women on a discussion board like this one.

One woman had a Catholic babysitter who watched children in her home.

One Friday evening, the Jewish woman, rushing to pick up her kid because it was Shabbat, walked in to find the Catholic babysitter bent down lighting candles in the kitchen cabinet under the sink. She asked her what she was doing.

The woman said it was a tradition handed down by her mother and grandmother. They lit candles underneath the kitchen sink and said a prayer on Friday night.

The Jewish woman was stunned, and said, "You have a forced conversion somewhere in your history." The Catholic woman had no knowledge of this, and in fact her prayers were Catholic. But after the Jewish woman urged her to delve into her background a bit, it turned out that indeed the mother's family had once been Jewish but had converted at some point for self-preservation. The tradition of lighting Shabbat candles was passed on down, but the meaning of why they lit candles before sunset on Friday had been lost.

The woman remained Catholic, but her daughter reverted back to Orthodox Judaism and reclaimed her heritage.



That's a fascinating story. I love how different cultures have preserved their ancestral traditions one way or another, whether they were enslaved Africans and their descendants, or Europeans who were forced to assimilate into a religious/cultural majority.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-31-2023, 05:15 PM
Status: "Save the children of Gaza" (set 1 hour ago)
 
Location: St. Louis Park, MN
7,723 posts, read 6,355,253 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
So laying off the toot is a non-negotiable, then. Good to know.



The Spanish Christianized his people and introduced to them the possibility for salvation. Nothing to sugar coat. Maybe your "husband" would prefer having his heart cut out by a servant-priest of demons? Or does he fancy himself as the one doing the heart extractions?
"Salvation" sounds similar to what those Jihadists say.

Maybe we both fancy people leaving us alone and doing whatever the hell we want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 05:36 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,583 posts, read 15,502,808 times
Reputation: 10820
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
So laying off the toot is a non-negotiable, then. Good to know.



The Spanish Christianized his people and introduced to them the possibility for salvation. Nothing to sugar coat. Maybe your "husband" would prefer having his heart cut out by a servant-priest of demons? Or does he fancy himself as the one doing the heart extractions?
Why didn't the Spanish just leave them alone to live as they were? They were a more advanced civilization than the Spanish in a number of ways. The Spanish ruined a great empire.

Her husband wouldn't have qualified for either role.

BTW, Mexico is still unhappy with the brutality they suffered. They asked the Catholic Church to apologize and to return their artifacts.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...cts-180976178/
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 05:38 PM
 
Location: West Virginia
16,583 posts, read 15,502,808 times
Reputation: 10820
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
I understand where you're coming from and agree with you in principle; but when lies and slander are spread about the Catholic Church here, I feel a burden to defend her.

No lies or slander have been posted in this thread. You'd do better to accept what happened, apologize for what your church did, and try to empathize with a country that lost its entire culture.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 06:08 PM
Status: "Save the children of Gaza" (set 1 hour ago)
 
Location: St. Louis Park, MN
7,723 posts, read 6,355,253 times
Reputation: 10382
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscAlaMike View Post
I understand where you're coming from and agree with you in principle; but when lies and slander are spread about the Catholic Church here, I feel a burden to defend her.
Sooo explaining what is common knowledge of world history is "slander" but saying the Indigenous people were "worshipping demons" and "needed salvation" is not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 07:56 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,691 posts, read 3,548,029 times
Reputation: 1087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pincho-toot View Post
Sooo explaining what is common knowledge of world history is "slander" but saying the Indigenous people were "worshipping demons" and "needed salvation" is not?
There is Bias at work …
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Hawaii.
4,859 posts, read 426,343 times
Reputation: 1131
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit33 View Post
Not accurate. Maryland was established as the English colony for Catholics, in the 1600s.

But Roman Catholicism entered the US from multiple areas and groups of immigrants.

The French colonies to the north were Roman Catholic.

The city of New Orleans, belonging over time to the French and Spanish, was a major port for vessels from all over the world, communicating with the vast area of Louisiana and all the parts up the Mississippi. The population of N.O. was almost 100% Roman Catholic.

A small number of Irish Catholics immigrated to the southern US - primarily the upland regions - in the 1700s and early 1800s.

A very large number of Irish Catholics came to Boston and New York during the Irish famines of the 1840s, settling in large numbers in those cities and permanently changing their character - especially in certain professions - think tavernkeepers, policemen, and the construction trades.

Just to the south of the United States was New Spain, later Mexico, which originally included the present states of California, Arizona, Nevada, Colorado, New Mexico, Texas, and parts of other states. Mexico was and is an almost exclusive Roman Catholic population, and of course the non-indigenous and mestizo people who lived there before the region was detached from Mexico, and the people who came north, were Roman Catholics.

The vast area of the Louisiana Purchase was owned by France, then Spain, then France, before it was sold to the US. France and Spain were both Roman Catholic countries and their representatives always attempted to promote Catholic Christianity. Obviously the vast streams of Protestants who came into these areas after the Purchase overbore the Catholic population, but not completely.

In the Northeast, Portuguese fishermen were and are a very large fraction of the fishing fleet.

Very few of these Roman Catholic communities took their direction from Maryland.
Oh, yes, oh, yes! You're right, I'm wrong. Everything I shared above should be disregarded as inconsequential.

Crap. The fact is, one cannot explain and answer fully and conclusively such a broad question in a single post, here. I offered what I remembered. It's not false, nor inconsequential.

In the ENGLISH COLONIES, Maryland was the starting-point.
"...The colony was named in honor of Queen Henrietta Maria, the wife of King Charles I. Led by Leonard Calvert, Cecil Calvert's younger brother, the first settlers departed from Cowes, on the Isle of Wight, on November 22, 1633 aboard two small ships, the Ark and the Dove. Their landing on March 25, 1634 at St. Clement's Island in southern Maryland, is commemorated by the state each year on that date as Maryland Day. This was the site of the first Catholic Mass in the Colonies, with Father Andrew White leading the service. The first group of colonists consisted of 17 gentlemen and their wives, and about two hundred others, mostly indentured servants who could work off their passage..."
https://sos.maryland.gov/mdkids/Page...s-History.aspx

The original question was about Catholicism in the UNITED STATES. The English Colonies were the political entity which became the United States. Not French Canada or anything else. Yes, I forgot to mention the Portuguese. Lots of them around Fall River and New Bedford. But they were not part of my own personal experience, which I was mostly trying to communicate. ... And oh, yes, let the whole world know it: you're smarter than me.
..........Crap.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 09:19 PM
 
4,634 posts, read 1,751,993 times
Reputation: 6400
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We should not try to deny the egregious history of Catholic "forcing." It is undeniable, just ask whatever Cathars may exist today, Mink.
It's not just forced religion, Mystic. It's forced anything.

Don't understand why religion is somehow a culprit.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-31-2023, 09:37 PM
 
4,634 posts, read 1,751,993 times
Reputation: 6400
Quote:
Originally Posted by mensaguy View Post
It's well documented in history that the Spanish and Portuguese forced conversion to Catholicism all over Central and South America in the 16th Century. If you d to learn that in history class, that's on you. I'm not wasting my time to look up links for you.
If that's the truth, then why aren't ALL people in Central/South America Catholic? Why aren't they ALL Catholic now?

Were some forced and others not? And if not, WHY not? If so WHY so?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2023, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
87,957 posts, read 83,773,798 times
Reputation: 114140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mink57 View Post
If that's the truth, then why aren't ALL people in Central/South America Catholic? Why aren't they ALL Catholic now?

Were some forced and others not? And if not, WHY not? If so WHY so?
Ha, some left! In 1654 a ship carrying 23 Jews pulled into the harbor at Nieuw Amsterdam on the island of Manhattan asking to be allowed to settle there. They were fleeing Recife, which had just been recaptured by the Portuguese from the Brazilian Dutch colony, and they were in danger, so they got out of Dodge and headed to another Dutch colony, thus establishing the first Jewish congregation in what would become the United States.

Congregation Shearith Israel, the orthodox community founded by those refugees fleeing the tail-end of the Inquisition, is still in existence, located now on Central Park West.
__________________
Moderator posts are in RED.
City-Data Terms of Service: //www.city-data.com/terms.html
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top