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If preterist is truly seeking to know, then there is hope. I am looking at his pov and just not seeing that the whole event of Revelation hangs on "Shortly" when it is past, present, and future directed.
I believe he has not contemplated Jesus appearing to those that are quickened, or translated/transfigured/born of God.
Which John clearly was.
godspeed,
freedom
I must admit, I did over-generalize the situation and for that I apologize. However, preterist is not seeking to know, but to refute and teach. I understand that because he believes strongly in what he does believe. But, then again, this is the unproductive side of the debate. Neither side is looking to change their viewpoint, but to prove they're right. That's the Holy Spirit's job. By all means, people should state their views and even have a short, civil debate or discussion on it, but for it to have carried on and on in thread after thread is unproductive and silliness.
Freedom,
I am also of the belief that something of extraordinary proportion will be taking place sometime this year. It's a feeling, based on the things you listed above and many other things. Predictions are just that....predictions. A sweeping and undeniable "spiritual feeling" among millions of Christians speaks volumes about the time being near.
I can't remember which thread it was now (I'll have to do a search) but I posted stats on the increase of natural disasters. It's quite eye-opening, in spite of others best attempts at debunking everything I posted. Facts are facts....sometimes even the best efforts at putting spins on them cannot stick. I'll try to find the thread and reference it.
People had that 'feeling' in the 1960s as well. I wonder how much of it is spiritual and how much of it is because we are in turbulent times. I feel there are still too many Christians and righteous people in this world for Him to end things now. Christianity may be on the decline in America, but its on the rise in Asia, with thousands being saved per day in China.
People had that 'feeling' in the 1960s as well. I wonder how much of it is spiritual and how much of it is because we are in turbulent times. I feel there are still too many Christians and righteous people in this world for Him to end things now. Christianity may be on the decline in America, but its on the rise in Asia, with thousands being saved per day in China.
People have been 'predicting' the coming of Jesus for centuries. And the truth is He could have come (the rapture) at anytime. It's wrong to predict the day or hour, but it's also wrong to ignore Biblical prophecy being fulfilled and bury your head in the sand. Futurism is realism, and the reality is people need to be prepared and to not be caught off-guard.
Christians are to be watching and waiting, as well as going about their daily lives. If someone is not feeling the spiritual closeness of the events that are getting ready to take place then they should probably get into deep prayer and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself. This is not some crackpot theology.....millions believe it and millions are feeling the urgency and imminency. I don't think that you realize that what you said about people being saved around the world is also Biblical end time prophecy.
I must admit, I did over-generalize the situation and for that I apologize. However, preterist is not seeking to know, but to refute and teach. I understand that because he believes strongly in what he does believe. But, then again, this is the unproductive side of the debate. Neither side is looking to change their viewpoint, but to prove they're right. That's the Holy Spirit's job. By all means, people should state their views and even have a short, civil debate or discussion on it, but for it to have carried on and on in thread after thread is unproductive and silliness.
Simple Living: Again, you misunderstand. It would be great if everyone suddenly agreed with me. But that is not my primary goal. I have been attempting to challenge people to know why they believe what they believe lest they (or I) find themselves in error (as I did for over twenty years). What I am refuting is the neglect of proper Bible study principles. I have been encouraging people to take words at their face value. I have been challenging others (and myself) to be good Bereans and study verses in their context and do word studies to see how words are used elsewhere in the Scriptures. For example, IF "this generation" is ALWAYS used by Jesus of those contemporaneous to Himself, then why are many justified in making it mean something else in Matthew 24:34? Have people done cross-referencing to see how Jesus always uses this expression? That is proper Bible study.
How is the word "near" used throughout the NT? Are there ever instances where it is clearly used to mean anything other than at hand? If there are not, then why do some feel justified in making it mean something else in eschatological passages? How is it always used? That is proper Bible study!
Another case is the term "elements" in 2 Peter 3. A simple study of this word (stoicheia) would reveal that it is never used of the chemical makeup of the earth but always deals with the precepts (rudiments) or laws of man, and the oracles of God. Always! Why, then, do so many give it a different unprecedented meaning in 2 Peter 3?
Your statement that "people should state their views" is a great principle for nonbiblical threads. The problem with debates concerning the Bible is that there is too much stating of views and not enough exegesis of what the Bible actually says. I am not looking to be right any more than anyone else is here. I am looking for even one person who is willing to do correct Bible study--line upon line; precepts upon precepts. That's takes hard work. Perhaps I have come to the wrong place.
People have been 'predicting' the coming of Jesus for centuries. And the truth is He could have come (the rapture) at anytime. It's wrong to predict the day or hour, but it's also wrong to ignore Biblical prophecy being fulfilled and bury your head in the sand. Futurism is realism, and the reality is people need to be prepared and to not be caught off-guard.
Christians are to be watching and waiting, as well as going about their daily lives. If someone is not feeling the spiritual closeness of the events that are getting ready to take place then they should probably get into deep prayer and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself. This is not some crackpot theology.....millions believe it and millions are feeling the urgency and imminency. I don't think that you realize that what you said about people being saved around the world is also Biblical end time prophecy.
This is a great post and I agree with you! Jesus warned many times not to be caught off guard by His return, it could happen at any moment.
People have been 'predicting' the coming of Jesus for centuries. And the truth is He could have come (the rapture) at anytime. It's wrong to predict the day or hour, but it's also wrong to ignore Biblical prophecy being fulfilled and bury your head in the sand. Futurism is realism, and the reality is people need to be prepared and to not be caught off-guard.
Christians are to be watching and waiting, as well as going about their daily lives. If someone is not feeling the spiritual closeness of the events that are getting ready to take place then they should probably get into deep prayer and ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself. This is not some crackpot theology.....millions believe it and millions are feeling the urgency and imminency. I don't think that you realize that what you said about people being saved around the world is also Biblical end time prophecy.
Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do younot see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not [one] stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
Matthew 24:30-34 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer [is] near. "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near -- at the doors! "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
So if Christ's return is imminent as you say, and we can look at the parable of the fig tree, and "know" that the coming of Christ will be like the budding of the fig tree before the arrival of summer, then why have millions before you been wrong on the second coming. I have lived to witness many buddings of trees and many arrivals of summer, and I have never been wrong on when spring, and summer are approaching. Not once! So, many before you have been wrong on the second coming, and do not stand up to this parable. Now, why is the "You" spoken here in Matthew, as well as in Luke 21 and Mark 13 about the parable of the Fig tree, happen to pertain to yourself. There must be a reason it is now "YOUR" generation. What are now the signs given to "you" as Gods' "elect" to know summer is drawing nigh. Or, in other words, Christ is coming. What are the signs? How do you know it is imminent?
Who exactly was Christ speaking to on the Mount of Olives when his disciples asked Him the questions about the "end of the age".
Mark 13:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what [will be] the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?" 5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
just something to ponder..
Chernoby also means "wormwood"
Chernobyl : The Taste of Wormwood (broken link)
**my arguy disclaimer..its just something to think about..I in no way accept it as fact..cause I just dont know..
Thanks arguy, i think most of us don't realize how bad the meltdown was.
I believe that Chernobyl will be seen as a small event compared to when man uses its nuclear bombs in the final war. And then the rains come again and spread the wormwood all over the planet.
Matthew 24:2 And Jesus said to them, "Do younot see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not [one] stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down."
Matthew 24:30-34 "Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer [is] near. "So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near -- at the doors! "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.
So if Christ's return is imminent as you say, and we can look at the parable of the fig tree, and "know" that the coming of Christ will be like the budding of the fig tree before the arrival of summer, then why have millions before you been wrong on the second coming. I have lived to witness many buddings of trees and many arrivals of summer, and I have never been wrong on when spring, and summer are approaching. Not once! So, many before you have been wrong on the second coming, and do not stand up to this parable. Now, why is the "You" spoken here in Matthew, as well as in Luke 21 and Mark 13 about the parable of the Fig tree, happen to pertain to yourself. There must be a reason it is now "YOUR" generation. What are now the signs given to "you" as Gods' "elect" to know summer is drawing nigh. Or, in other words, Christ is coming. What are the signs? How do you know it is imminent?
Who exactly was Christ speaking to on the Mount of Olives when his disciples asked Him the questions about the "end of the age".
Mark 13:3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 4 "Tell us, when will these things be? And what [will be] the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?" 5 And Jesus, answering them, began to say: "Take heed that no one deceives you.
Hiram,
All the futurists on this board have covered this time and time again, but to no avail in your case. Yes, Jesus was speaking to the disciples as well as generations to come. You already know what the signs are, they are in the Bible. WE are the last of "this generation" that Jesus spoke of.
And yes, many have been wrong in "predicting" Jesus' return. We are not to predict it, we are to watch for the signs. The signs are here, all around us. We are to warn of the signs, which indicate the end is drawing "near". The signs and Christ's return go hand in hand. When we have the signs, we can expect Christ's return at any moment. Any moment can mean tomorrow or 30 years from now. We are on God's timetable, which is not like ours.
What people don't seem to grasp is that we are not guaranteed one more minute in this life, regardless of the imminent return of Jesus. Being prepared for both is what's important, not these ridiculous, wearing arguments of someone being so sure it's already happened. It's wrong to project that, I will never agree, and I will continue until my last breath saying that the return of Christ is going to happen in "this generation".
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Parable of the Fig Tree
