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You keep posting Hebrews knowing that it is controversial at best . . . and corrupted on purpose at worst. Can you not see the inherent contradiction . . . Jesus IS God . . . yet He needed to LEARN something????
What?! I don't see Hebrews as corrupt at all. And no Jesus is NOT God. Jesus has God within Him via God's Spirit (The Holy Spirit). Now if I don't see Hebrews as corrupt (as you apparently do) then you should understand that I can't depart from the scripture.
What?! I don't see Hebrews as corrupt at all. And no Jesus is NOT God. Jesus has God within Him via God's Spirit (The Holy Spirit). Now if I don't see Hebrews as corrupt (as you apparently do) then you should understand that I can't depart from the scripture.
Paul
You gave every indication of a sincere study of hermeneutics, etc. . . . but I must have missed the posts where you revealed your infallible literalist beliefs. It is impossible to not be frustrated by the willful and closed-minded ignorance and intransigence of inerrant literalists. Your soul seems satisfied with your current views . . . so peace be with you, brother.
You gave every indication of a sincere study of hermeneutics, etc. . . . but I must have missed the posts where you revealed your infallible literalist beliefs. It is impossible to not be frustrated by the willful and closed-minded ignorance and intransigence of inerrant literalists. Your soul seems satisfied with your current views . . . so peace be with you, brother.
I am a believer with a deep hunger for knowledge of our father. I try not to be on nothing that I have not the full knowledge of and I pray that my fellow brothers and sisters do not intentionally attempt to mislead others. I'm open to all discussions and rebuke for I strongly wish to be corrected in all my faults. After stating this I hope that none of my comments are looked as if to put myself above anyone or to be looked at as a teacher so I hope I may begin with my questions without prejudice.
- I was thought by Arnold Murray and research that the Lord's name is YHVH. People are confused with YHWH because the "W" was inserted by pagans because at that time they worshipped the bird rah and created the letter "W" as a form of worship to the birds foot. The "W" was inserted in place of the letter "V" because as you can see "V" is the root of "W". The Lord's name was changed however and was added by extra letters for pronunciation purposes including "Y" but not by pagan. every letter has a meaning. But I have not yet concluded my research on those meaning of the "V" & "H".
- With that aside I have a question. So I was trying to come to the conclusion is The king of Tyre in Ezekial 28 Satan? and also since Cain wasnt mentioned in the Genealogy of Adam I don't see Abel either but ONLY Seth as the son of Adam so were both Cain and Abel seed's of Satan?
A Christian friend of mine posted this on another website. Now before anyone gets too carried away, he is a VERY devout Christian and seminary student who has ALWAYS defended Christianity and is as objective as I think any Christian can be. We have had our back and forths, but he has always remained true to his faith and generally not afraid to debate or discuss even the most controversial subjects.
I've read about the information below before, but I never really gave it much thought beyond reading it but he brought it up and wanted my response. Has anyone else here ever heard of this interpretation? See below (his post).
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OK...I know like myself, you read a lot, so just want your take on a couple of things, and what your sources may say about them.
1) Genesis 4:1 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD."
A book I'm reading at the moment makes an interesting point, and that is the word translated "from" should have read "with", and that the expression "the LORD" was used in reference to angels (has to do with Biblical Criticism and more, but I'm not going there at the moment), and should have read "the angel of the LORD", as per angelic names Gabriel, Michael, Sammael, etc.
Also, the Targum Pseudo-Johnathan translation of this text reads: "And Adam knew that his wife Eve had conceived from the angel Sammael [=Satan] and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain. He was like the angels and not like humans, so she said, I have acquired a man, indeed, an angel of the Lord."
Tertullian, in On Patience 5:15 also is said to have written, "Having been made pregnant by the seed of the devil ... she brought for a son."
Interestingly, in 1John 3:10-12, reference is made to Cain "who was of the evil one and murdered his brother".
A couple of things that provoked the issue were: 1) the use of the word "man" in Genesis 4. In Hebrew, the word was man is never used in reference to a baby/child; and 2) why would Cain become so angry at his offering not being accepted.
Apparently, the ancients understook the text to mean that Cain was the seed of Satan, which explain the offering rejection, and how he was able to be so incensed as to murder his brother.
The whole OP shows only ignorance of the Word of God. From Genesis to Revelation, there is no way that such a claim can be made, that Satan, a created evil spirit, has sex with humans. Even the angels who fell had to remain in the human body forms and leave their spirit body forms that they were created with, as Enoch explains, and as Jude corroborates. For that fornication, the angels/Watchers/ben Elohym =created sons of the spirit forms, got chained in Sheol as a warning to other angels to not do that. Satan is not an angel, never was an angel and has never taken a human body to remain in it so as to have sexual fornication with daughters born in Adam. Satan has "sons" only in the sense that when one believes his lies, and acts upon them, they become spiritual "sons" by that evil spirit entering them. God the Word visited Cain when his inferior offering was not accepted, and offered him a "do-over" -to do well and be accepted; and God the Word, visiting Cain, warned Cain that "Sin [Satan] was lying in wait, at his "door" [the entry into his spirit], and was stretching out in lust, after him, but that Cain must "master/rule Him/Sin/Satan.
Cain did not master Satan lying in wait to enter him, and accepted the temptations to envy and to murder his brother.
When Judas betrayed Jesus, then Satan entered him, and he was then a "child of perdition/Destriuction/Abbadon/Death/Satan"
Quote:
Genesis 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."
Luk 22:3 Then Satan entered into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Jhn 8:44Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
The Book of Jasher/Book of the Upright Chapter 1:
Quote:
11
And Adam and his wife transgressed the command of God which he commanded them, and God knew it, and his anger was kindled against them and he cursed them. 12
And the Lord God drove them that day from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from which they were taken, and they went and dwelt at the east of the garden of Eden; and Adam knew his wife Eve and she bore two sons and three daughters. 13
And she called the name of the first born Cain, saying, I have obtained a man from the Lord, and the name of the other she called Abel, for she said, In vanity we came into the earth, and in vanity we shall be taken from it. 14
And the boys grew up and their father gave them a possession in the land; and Cain was a tiller of the ground, and Abel a keeper of sheep. 15
And it was at the expiration of a few years, that they brought an approximating offering to the Lord, and Cain brought from the fruit of the ground, and Abel brought from the firstlings of his flock from the fat thereof, and God turned and inclined to Abel and his offering, and a fire came down from the Lord from heaven and consumed it. 16
And unto Cain and his offering the Lord did not turn, and he did not incline to it, for he had brought from the inferior fruit of the ground before the Lord, and Cain was jealous against his brother Abel on account of this, and he sought a pretext to slay him. 17
And in some time after, Cain and Abel his brother, went one day into the field to do their work; and they were both in the field, Cain tilling and ploughing his ground, and Abel feeding his flock; and the flock passed that part which Cain had ploughed in the ground, and it sorely grieved Cain on this account. 18
And Cain approached his brother Abel in anger, and he said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou comest to dwell and bring thy flock to feed in my land? 19
And Abel answered his brother Cain and said unto him, What is there between me and thee, that thou shalt eat the flesh of my flock and clothe thyself with their wool? 20
And now therefore, put off the wool of my sheep with which thou hast clothed thyself, and recompense me for their fruit and flesh which thou hast eaten, and when thou shalt have done this, I will then go from thy land as thou hast said? 21
And Cain said to his brother Abel, Surely if I slay thee this day, who will require thy blood from me? 22
And Abel answered Cain, saying, Surely God who has made us in the earth, he will avenge my cause, and he will require my blood from thee shouldst thou slay me, for the Lord is the judge and arbiter, and it is he who will requite man according to his evil, and the wicked man according to the wickedness that he may do upon earth. 23
And now, if thou shouldst slay me here, surely God knoweth thy secret views, and will judge thee for the evil which thou didst declare to do unto me this day. 24
And when Cain heard the words which Abel his brother had spoken, behold the anger of Cain was kindled against his brother Abel for declaring this thing. 25
And Cain hastened and rose up, and took the iron part of his ploughing instrument, with which he suddenly smote his brother and he slew him, and Cain spilt the blood of his brother Abel upon the earth, and the blood of Abel streamed upon the earth before the flock. 26
And after this Cain repented having slain his brother, and he was sadly grieved, and he wept over him and it vexed him exceedingly. 27
And Cain rose up and dug a hole in the field, wherein he put his brother's body, and he turned the dust over it. 28
And the Lord knew what Cain had done to his brother, and the Lord appeared to Cain and said unto him, Where is Abel thy brother that was with thee? 29
And Cain dissembled, and said, I do not know, am I my brother's keeper? And the Lord said unto him, What hast thou done? The voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground where thou hast slain him. 30
For thou hast slain thy brother and hast dissembled before me, and didst imagine in thy heart that I saw thee not, nor knew all thy actions. 31
But thou didst this thing and didst slay thy brother for naught and because he spoke rightly to thee, and now, therefore, cursed be thou from the ground which opened its mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand, and wherein thou didst bury him. 32
And it shall be when thou shalt till it, it shall no more give thee its strength as in the beginning, for thorns and thistles shall the ground produce, and thou shalt be moving and wandering in the earth until the day of thy death. 33
And at that time Cain went out from the presence of the Lord, from the place where he was, and he went moving and wandering in the land toward the east of Eden, he and all belonging to him. 34
And Cain knew his wife in those days, and she conceived and bare a son, and he called his name Enoch[Enowsh], saying, In that time the Lord began to give him rest and quiet in the earth. 35
And at that time Cain also began to build a city: and he built the city and he called the name of the city Enoch, according to the name of his son; for in those days the Lord had given him rest upon the earth, and he did not move about and wander as in the beginning.
- With that aside I have a question. So I was trying to come to the conclusion is The king of Tyre in Ezekial 28 Satan? and also since Cain wasnt mentioned in the Genealogy of Adam I don't see Abel either but ONLY Seth as the son of Adam so were both Cain and Abel seed's of Satan?
The reason for Abel murder was over a woman...according to the excerpt below:
Quote:
"The occasion of the marking this offering is thus related, according to the common tradition in the East. Each of them being born with a twin-sister, when they were grown up, Adam, by God's direction, ordered Cain to marry Abel's twin-sister and Abel to marry Cain's; (for it being the common opinion that marriages ought not to be had in the nearest degrees of consanguinity, since they must necessarily marry their sister, it seemed reasonable to suppose they ought to take those of the remoter degree but this Cain refusing to agree to, because his own sister was the handsomest, Adam ordered them to make their offerings to God, thereby refering the dispute to His determination. The commentators say Cain's offering was a sheaf of the worst of his corn, but Abel's a fat lamb of the best of his flock. (Hughe's Dictionary of Islam, p. 2, quoting Sale's Koran, I., p.122)
I don't agree with the commentary bolded above. Logic dictates that "disobedience" was why the Lord had rejected Cain's offering, (rebellion already forming in his heart) making the offering hypocritical...thus, futile.
And when he ran...he had somebody with him (his twin-sister) per Genesis 4:
16 And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.
17 And Cain knew (to mean...had intercourse with) his wife; and she conceived......
The start of the "branching" of Adam and Eve's seeds.
Peace!
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but this Cain refusing to agree to, because his own sister was the handsomest, Adam ordered them to make their offerings to God, thereby refering the dispute to His determination. The commentators say Cain's offering was a sheaf of the worst of his corn, but Abel's a fat lamb of the best of his flock. (Hughe's Dictionary of Islam, p. 2, quoting Sale's Koran, I., p.122)
