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Old 04-10-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: Baldwin
372 posts, read 456,329 times
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I am not a JW, but my mother and her family are. I have done a lot of reading to try and reach them, but until I can get past the brain-washing and get them to open their hearts to hear some truth, I don't have much hope.

An excellent book is Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz, who you may or may not know was a member of the governing body and was involved in the "translation" of the "bible" the JW's use. He has a wonderful message because he was involved all the way to the top. I wish you well REFORMED.
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Old 04-11-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Welland, Ontario Canada
321 posts, read 853,834 times
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I was raised a JW by a fanatical mother. (My father wanted nothing to do with them). I don't agree with everything that has been said in the posts but some things are true.

Disfellowshipping is not necessarily the harsh punishment that people think it is. I was disfellowshipped and yes, attending the KH was hard at first. But people wanted to see that I was genuine in my repentence, no one cared about why I was disfellowshipped, they wanted to know I was sorry for what I had done. Eventually, elders spoke to me, and other members smiled at me and when I was reinstated there was happiness.

The vast majority of JW's are humble, clean living people who only wish to serve Jehovah. There is nothing wrong with that. Unfortunately, some of them, such as my mom, are fanatics who are verbally and emotionally abusive and believe that every decision you make that is not in line with her beliefs proves you are evil, (and worthless and nothing).

I quit attending the meetings about two-years ago. My mother hasn't spoken to me in nearly three years, long before I stopped going to the Hall. I got married a year ago, and nobody from my family attended (even though none of them are Witnesses). A religion that is supposed to support love and tolerance has destroyed my family. I've watched it tear us apart.

I'll never go back. But that isn't because I hate them, I actually feel nothing for them. I encourage my daughter to study if she wishes too and if she wants to go to the Hall I won't stop her. But I am done with them.
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Old 04-11-2009, 10:09 PM
 
2 posts, read 5,089 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeveenh View Post
I've put off responding for a few weeks...not sure at all I would respond or just let it rest. But I have been thinking a lot about all of the posts and since it's back up near the top of the threads I thought I'd go ahead and respond.

Reformed: thank you for taking the time to type out your experience...it was a long one. I did not observe first hand the things you say happened, nor do I know your family. I'm sure "Kisses" didn't intend to be offensive, but instead was just trying to say that there may be other factors or circumstances that weren't mentioned...there is ALWAYS another side to the story.

If your father found serious error with the JW's and presented to other members who disagreed...then it sounds like he was on his way to leaving the religion on his own accord. They were probably just as stunned and hurt as your father was. I'm sure they discussed this situation with love and understanding prior to leaving in succession. Perhaps your father was just as unwilling to listen as you say they were unwilling listen to your father. JW's take their faith seriously, and the members do more research than any other religious organization that I have ever encountered. It's all a he said/she said and I wasn't there so I don't know.

As far as the smoking issue...I give the JW's credit for taking a stand on an issue like smoking and requiring members to be free from the habit. SMOKNG KILLS PEOPLE...life is sacred and should be treated respectfully (2 Cor 7:1). 6 months is a generous amount of time, sorry your grandmother couldn't kick the habit. How many other people asked for extensions on the 6 months? How do you draw a line and then make exceptions? By age? By level of apparent dependency? If they made exceptions, there'd probably STILL be smokers trying to quit.

There is no law that says you cannot talk to a disfellowshipped member. It is a personal choice. Are you discouraged from doing so, sure...for your own spiritual health. Why associate with someone who opposes what you believe? It could be damaging to your spiritual health. HOWEVER, as I said it is a personal choice. I have a sister who some would consider an apostate...I still talk to her and so do my other JW family members. What people don't understand is that JW's don't like to see their friends and family leave the faith. They actually mourn, are heartsick, and pray for that individual. Some do choose to keep in contact encouraging them to repent. Some do choose to cut off communication.


I imagine being escorted out by armed guards, lol. It doesn't matter what bible translation you use. That is just laughable! How have so many other people come to the same conclusions (nonJW's included) using different translations? The doctrines of hell or the trinity (just to name two) are not disputed by JW's alone.



I was raised a JW and not taught this extreme fear. Perhaps it's the parenting?? Was I taught to have a fear of demonistic and spiritually unhealthy things, yes. We couldn't listen to songs that had sexually explicit or violent language either. We didn't watch programs with that content...or programs that contained things that dealt with "spirits". I am not traumatized, nor are my sisters, nor are my cousins (all 10 of them).

You describe peoples' lives who left the religion and who's lives took a turn for the worst. How can that be blamed on the religion??? They "TURNED" gay because of the JW's...after they left the JW's?? Another turned to drugs and suffered from depression?? There are millions of others who turn away from these things when they BECOME a JW. If you and your family members want to blame the religion as a scapegoat, please don't leave out the other side of the stories. I honestly mean no disrespect, but it sounds like your family has some serious issues outside of the religion. That may sound blunt and harsh, but there is no other way to say it.

Dahlila, I'm sorry to hear the experiences you had as well. As a mother, my heart aches to hear of such things. But again, my mother never said such things to us. We were warned that the supernatural was something not to be toyed with. Perhaps it is a parenting thing? As for the child molestation that occured in your family. Are you saying that it happened because you were JW's? Unfortunately, people of all kinds can creep in to any organization and "hide" or blend in. The JW religion does not PRODUCE fruit that are molestors or abusers or tormentors.

They do not destroy families either. In my situation, it has done the exact opposite of what you (reformed) claim and brought my family closer together. The counsel for husbands, wives, parents, and children is clear. Parents don't disown children (or vice versa) for choosing to leave the religion. Many times it is the nonJW who shuns the JW for not participating in holidays, or acting too "goody goody". How many nonJW people disown you when you become a JW?! I'll tell you from experience nonJW people judge you just as much as JW's are accused of judging.

Instead of being stumbled by the imperfections of the members of any religion, look at the doctrines the religion teaches. Are they scripturally sound? Look at the practices (holidays, worship, etc). Are they scripturally sound?

My own experience is long as well. My mother became a JW when I was in 4th grade, so that is when my experience began. I've studied off and on for 30 years. I have encountered all kinds of religions and philosophies, all kinds of people, and had many different experiences. So my vision is broad and without blinders. I have done the research and believe that what I have learned while studying with JW's is scripturally sound.
I understand REFORMED does not visit the forum anymore. So let me address in his/her defense. Quite honestly, I don't know whether to laugh or not at your comments, because they seem so typical. Who are you to suggest "parenting issues" to anyone who tells a bunch of strangers their personal story? What kind of compassion is that to have on someone? I see no spirit of Christ in such statements. Would Christ have said "It sounds like your family has serious issues anyway". Who are you to say "it sounds like he was on his way to leaving the religion on his own accord" about someone's father, after they already told the story? Who are you to devise your assumption when this person did not ask for it? Did REFORMED ask you to please say what you thought of his/her father's experience with the elders? It as if you are judging him/her as being somehow dishonest just because the story is not one you choose to believe at the moment. Would Jesus say "Sounds like he was on his way out anyway". And your comment: "...JW's take their faith seriously, and the members do more research than any other religious organization that I have ever encountered. It's all a he said/she said and I wasn't there so I don't know."; this is more 'laughable', as you put it, than anything I have read on this forum. Of course, that would be second to your opinion that JWs do not produce fruits of child molestors or abusers. To that, I do not laugh though. I am deeply concerned for your distorted perception of reality. I see that your mind has been tricked into a habit of, "Deny, deny, deny, and eventually it will feel and sound true". No one but no one has the right to judge which fruit is produced by whom. Nor does anyone have the right to assume which fruit is "not" produced by whom. To do so is playing God, and you are not God. You are saying that JWs dont produce child molestors. But what about the JW child who is molested? Are you going to blame parenting? People who do this sound like "mother of the year" themselves. Hopefully their kids will not grow up to be as easily manipulated or uneducated.

My friend, I ask you what other religious organizations have you "encountered"? And I do not ask you how many various people of other religions you have 'talked to or had a few discussions with'. I would like to know exactlyhow many religious organizations you have intensely studied, each for atleast 6 months with great intensity?

Have you read the entire bible cover to cover, starting from Genesis, ending in revelations?

How much doctrine and deep theological studies you have accomplished outside of the Watchtower and Awake magazines, which is where you are taught from (it tells you where to turn in your bible and tells you what to look up based on the individual topical sermon or article.

Your useage of 2 Cor 7:1 is convenient for the topic of smoking, but nowhere in the bible does it claim that salvation is attained by the work of quitting smoking. The JW's right to take it into their own hands to ex communicate or disfellowship people because they chose to smoke, while that same JW goes home and drinks himself silly, or speeds over the speed limit, or eats fatty foods, or works around asbestos materials, or WHATEVER has harmed their body, is not scriptural. There is nowhere in the bible that I have seen that even mentions smoking. To disfellowship someone because of a manmade rule violates Christian principal. Their "no smoking" rule was based on their own rule.... not by Jesus Christ Himself.

Your mention of "no law about" versus "discouraged from" speaking to a disfellowshipped person shows a weak portrayal of your true understanding of the term "disfellowshipping". Post a question and ask how many disfellowshipped JW's were 100% absolutely rejected by their families and friends. Some day when you figure it all out, you'll actually find more and more people than you ever thought imagineable, who were completely shunned and cut off by Jehovah's Witnesses. Do not say for one second that it is not so. This is a falsehood, like most of their doctrine as a whole.

I would suggest some deep theological studies. You seem to have everyone else pegged, and you seem to be more busy assuming the truth about other people's lives than wholeheartedly examining the truth about the religious organization to which you have dedicated your entire mind to, and as a result, you seem to have lost the capacity to defend the JWs too hard by trying to humiliate someone else. You know nothing about REFORMED. And honestly, you know nothing about your own religion or it's hundreds of years of historical lies, false prophesies, leader's associations (ie: ties with the freemasons), and you have no record in your home, I'm sure, of the endless accounts of people's lives who were greatly dissheveled by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Extensively study outside the JWs teachings if you really want the truth, and leave the judgements to Jesus Christ, or as we call Him, God.

Last edited by ChristianTheology; 04-11-2009 at 10:16 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 04-12-2009, 04:25 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,492,887 times
Reputation: 289
Quote:
Originally Posted by IHOP View Post
I am not a JW, but my mother and her family are. I have done a lot of reading to try and reach them, but until I can get past the brain-washing and get them to open their hearts to hear some truth, I don't have much hope.

An excellent book is Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz, who you may or may not know was a member of the governing body and was involved in the "translation" of the "bible" the JW's use. He has a wonderful message because he was involved all the way to the top. I wish you well REFORMED.
Greetings IHOP--That's a great book by Franz. Very helpful. I, too, recommend it to anyone dealing with JWs. It is very important to understand where and how the JWs have mistranslated the Bible and to hopefully instill some lack of confidence in it for for the JWs with whom we deal.

In Christ, Preterist
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Old 11-16-2009, 03:47 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,792 times
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I have a great ammount of respect for Jehova Witnesses. And after reading everyones post I believe that people who were or still are Jehova Witnesses have different thoughts about it. But not just Jehova Witnesses will live in the after life when the world ends. Im a Protestant and i strongly believe I will and many other people who serve God will as well. Noah sereved God, thats why he lived on, to serve God even more. People who didnt listen to him never served God so thats what they deserved. I was thinking about converting to a JW but im still thinking and i found out all i would have t do in order to be "part" of it. and to me if seems like a long processes of thinking to me. Im in love with a man whos Jehova Witness and he cant marry outside out his religion. I support him being in the religion and im happy for him but im not sure if i should or not. Im happy being a Protestant but i would like to marry him.

and i dont know much about the religion so i would like advice with people who were or still are.

and i would read that book once you write it.

Last edited by okay123; 11-16-2009 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 03-31-2012, 03:29 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,355 times
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Hello
2 JW used to come to my house too! And they stopped comi..g too! Thats very weird? Any one know why?
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:53 AM
 
Location: US
32,530 posts, read 22,033,127 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristianTheology View Post
I understand REFORMED does not visit the forum anymore. So let me address in his/her defense. Quite honestly, I don't know whether to laugh or not at your comments, because they seem so typical. Who are you to suggest "parenting issues" to anyone who tells a bunch of strangers their personal story? What kind of compassion is that to have on someone? I see no spirit of Christ in such statements. Would Christ have said "It sounds like your family has serious issues anyway". Who are you to say "it sounds like he was on his way to leaving the religion on his own accord" about someone's father, after they already told the story? Who are you to devise your assumption when this person did not ask for it? Did REFORMED ask you to please say what you thought of his/her father's experience with the elders? It as if you are judging him/her as being somehow dishonest just because the story is not one you choose to believe at the moment. Would Jesus say "Sounds like he was on his way out anyway". And your comment: "...JW's take their faith seriously, and the members do more research than any other religious organization that I have ever encountered. It's all a he said/she said and I wasn't there so I don't know."; this is more 'laughable', as you put it, than anything I have read on this forum. Of course, that would be second to your opinion that JWs do not produce fruits of child molestors or abusers. To that, I do not laugh though. I am deeply concerned for your distorted perception of reality. I see that your mind has been tricked into a habit of, "Deny, deny, deny, and eventually it will feel and sound true". No one but no one has the right to judge which fruit is produced by whom. Nor does anyone have the right to assume which fruit is "not" produced by whom. To do so is playing God, and you are not God. You are saying that JWs dont produce child molestors. But what about the JW child who is molested? Are you going to blame parenting? People who do this sound like "mother of the year" themselves. Hopefully their kids will not grow up to be as easily manipulated or uneducated.

My friend, I ask you what other religious organizations have you "encountered"? And I do not ask you how many various people of other religions you have 'talked to or had a few discussions with'. I would like to know exactlyhow many religious organizations you have intensely studied, each for atleast 6 months with great intensity?

Have you read the entire bible cover to cover, starting from Genesis, ending in revelations?

How much doctrine and deep theological studies you have accomplished outside of the Watchtower and Awake magazines, which is where you are taught from (it tells you where to turn in your bible and tells you what to look up based on the individual topical sermon or article.

Your useage of 2 Cor 7:1 is convenient for the topic of smoking, but nowhere in the bible does it claim that salvation is attained by the work of quitting smoking. The JW's right to take it into their own hands to ex communicate or disfellowship people because they chose to smoke, while that same JW goes home and drinks himself silly, or speeds over the speed limit, or eats fatty foods, or works around asbestos materials, or WHATEVER has harmed their body, is not scriptural. There is nowhere in the bible that I have seen that even mentions smoking. To disfellowship someone because of a manmade rule violates Christian principal. Their "no smoking" rule was based on their own rule.... not by Jesus Christ Himself.

Your mention of "no law about" versus "discouraged from" speaking to a disfellowshipped person shows a weak portrayal of your true understanding of the term "disfellowshipping". Post a question and ask how many disfellowshipped JW's were 100% absolutely rejected by their families and friends. Some day when you figure it all out, you'll actually find more and more people than you ever thought imagineable, who were completely shunned and cut off by Jehovah's Witnesses. Do not say for one second that it is not so. This is a falsehood, like most of their doctrine as a whole.

I would suggest some deep theological studies. You seem to have everyone else pegged, and you seem to be more busy assuming the truth about other people's lives than wholeheartedly examining the truth about the religious organization to which you have dedicated your entire mind to, and as a result, you seem to have lost the capacity to defend the JWs too hard by trying to humiliate someone else. You know nothing about REFORMED. And honestly, you know nothing about your own religion or it's hundreds of years of historical lies, false prophesies, leader's associations (ie: ties with the freemasons), and you have no record in your home, I'm sure, of the endless accounts of people's lives who were greatly dissheveled by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Extensively study outside the JWs teachings if you really want the truth, and leave the judgements to Jesus Christ, or as we call Him, God.
Um...Just want to point out that JWs started out in 1872 by Charles Taze Russell, a former Seventh Day Adventist...140 years ago...So, it would be 140 years of historical lies...Not hundreds...And here is something regarding his membership in the Freemasons:

Several decades after his death, it was alleged that Russell had links with Freemasonry.[103] Some have claimed that various symbols Russell employed in his published literature are Masonic in nature, and that such associations implied he engaged in occult activity. In later editions of the Studies in the Scriptures series a winged solar disk was stamped on the front cover, a symbol that is also associated with Freemasonry.[citation needed] However, Russell's use of the winged solar-disk originated from his understanding of Malachi 4:2, which denotes a sun with wings, as a symbol that Christ's millennial Kingdom had begun to emerge.[104] Some critics also claim that the pyramid near Russell's gravesite is Masonic,[65][105][106][107] because of its shape and its use of the Cross and Crown symbol, although this remains disputed.[108][109] Despite these claims, the Grand Lodge officially stated that Russell was not a Freemason,[citation needed] and the symbols used are not exclusive to Masonry but pre-date the fraternity.[citation needed] The Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology notes that Russell's supporters, along with other Christian churches have "shown a marked aversion to Spiritualism and other occult phenomena. Very early in the group’s history Russell attacked Spiritualism (which he called Spiritism)".[110]
In June 1913, during his transcontinental speaking tour, Russell gave a discourse in a Masonic hall in San Francisco, where he stated: "Although I have never been a Mason ... Something I do seems to be the same as Masons do, I don't know what it is; but they often give me all kinds of grips and I give them back, then I tell them I don't know anything about it except just a few grips that have come to me naturally".[111] Throughout his ministry he stated that he believed Christian identity is incompatible with Freemasonry,[112] and that Freemasonry, Knights of Pythias, Theosophy, and other such groups are "grievous evils" and "unclean".[113][114] A Freemasonry website states: "Russell was not a Freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively Masonic."[115] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Taze_Russell

Last edited by Richard1965; 04-06-2012 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:24 PM
 
697 posts, read 1,072,211 times
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Originally Posted by Michigan_Man View Post
Hello Reformed,

....However I do go to 2 different churches (Baptist and Unitarian Universalist) and I feel so much happier in those places then I could ever hope to feel at a JW Kingdom hall. Theres more to my story but I'll leave it at that for now.
You go to both Baptist and Unitarian Universalist churches? Yes, I know this is way off topic, but I am fascinated by this. I would have thought each was the antithesis of the other? How do you pull that off? Start a new thread if you have to, I'm really curious about this.

I'm Lutheran, but raised Methodist. My mother and father (divorced) separately became Baptists somewhere along the way and I can't hardly stand to go to their churches. So much emphasis on hell and being saved from hell and asking Jesus into your heart. Every service! But when do they do communion? I don't think I've ever been there when they did. Anyway, so how do you reconcile those two completely opposite denominations?
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:04 PM
 
6,822 posts, read 6,635,398 times
Reputation: 3770
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Um...Just want to point out that JWs started out in 1872 by Charles Taze Russell, a former Seventh Day Adventist...140 years ago...So, it would be 140 years of historical lies...Not hundreds...And here is something regarding his membership in the Freemasons:

Several decades after his death, it was alleged that Russell had links with Freemasonry.[103] Some have claimed that various symbols Russell employed in his published literature are Masonic in nature, and that such associations implied he engaged in occult activity. In later editions of the Studies in the Scriptures series a winged solar disk was stamped on the front cover, a symbol that is also associated with Freemasonry.[citation needed] However, Russell's use of the winged solar-disk originated from his understanding of Malachi 4:2, which denotes a sun with wings, as a symbol that Christ's millennial Kingdom had begun to emerge.[104] Some critics also claim that the pyramid near Russell's gravesite is Masonic,[65][105][106][107] because of its shape and its use of the Cross and Crown symbol, although this remains disputed.[108][109] Despite these claims, the Grand Lodge officially stated that Russell was not a Freemason,[citation needed] and the symbols used are not exclusive to Masonry but pre-date the fraternity.[citation needed] The Encyclopedia of Occultism and Parapsychology notes that Russell's supporters, along with other Christian churches have "shown a marked aversion to Spiritualism and other occult phenomena. Very early in the group’s history Russell attacked Spiritualism (which he called Spiritism)".[110]
In June 1913, during his transcontinental speaking tour, Russell gave a discourse in a Masonic hall in San Francisco, where he stated: "Although I have never been a Mason ... Something I do seems to be the same as Masons do, I don't know what it is; but they often give me all kinds of grips and I give them back, then I tell them I don't know anything about it except just a few grips that have come to me naturally".[111] Throughout his ministry he stated that he believed Christian identity is incompatible with Freemasonry,[112] and that Freemasonry, Knights of Pythias, Theosophy, and other such groups are "grievous evils" and "unclean".[113][114] A Freemasonry website states: "Russell was not a Freemason. Neither the symbols found in the Watchtower nor the cross and crown symbol are exclusively Masonic."[115] - Charles Taze Russell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Watchtower Pyramid


Masonic Seal on Dollar Bill
http://think-aboutit.com/thinkdocs/media/feedgator/images/weekly/2011/21/12_5_dollar-bill-eye-pyramid.jpg (broken link)

Because the "Grand Official" claims he had no ties to Free Masonry doesn't necessarily mean that he didn't have ties or even wasn't one.

These people work through Symbols, Numerology, etc. The "Capstone" of the pyramid represents their "Savior". The light behind the eye represents their "source of illumination" - Lucifer. This is confirmable in the writings of both Manly P. Hall and Albert Pike which were both high degree Masons. They don't even try to hide it, and it's been on America's currency for over 60 years. What "God" are these people trusting? The "god of this age"? 2 Corinthians 4:4

The Pyramid represents the bearocratic structure of Satan's Kingdom. Only the guys at the top find out who they are really working for. That's why all the initiations and "steps" to get to the top along with all the secrecy.

Christ represented his Kingdom from a bottom up Structure. The greatest is to be the servant of all. His "Church" consists of a decentralized body of believers.

JW's are in bondage. I believe many are good people that think they are doing the right thing. They're just being taken advantage of.

This is why it is so important to understand our Liberty in Christ. No person or organization can "Lord" over us. Christ is Lord. He's who we answer to and him alone.
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Old 12-31-2013, 03:34 PM
 
1 posts, read 1,125 times
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I was a jw from 1990-2006.For the past 7 years I have been floundering around with nondenominational sects and groups who are mostly nontrinitarian and soul sleep advocates.The past year I intensely studied church history and orthodox theology.I have come to the conclusion that this Christendom who was repeatly told was of the devil was where I should be .The jws yearly memorial is an event where jws delibertly refuse Jesus body and blood.That being said this past month I received Christian baptism and have become a member of the Lutheran church-Missouri Synod.
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