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This is for Christians who do believe in the trinity, and I guess everyone else can chime in. With the trinity actually never being brought up in the Bible, so many contradictions to it, and a few verses that could halfway talk about it, it seems tough for me to comprehend. I personally believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost are all separate.
To say the trinity never being brought up is not true. There is no question that the Bible teaches the Trinity, although it doesn't use the term. There are passages that mention three distinct persons (e.g. Matthew 28:19), there are passages that identify each individual person as truly God (e.g. John 1:1), and there are passages that teach that, nevertheless, God is One (e.g. Deuteronomy 6:4). Put this all together, and the conclusion that God is triune becomes inescapable.
Non-Christians do not believe in three divine persons, for they deny the deity of Christ and the personality of the Holy Spirit. Your view is either a denial of the deity of two of the persons or polytheism. I do not know of any group today that holds this view of tritheism. If the unity is merely unity of purpose and not a unity of divine essence, then there are three gods or only one fully divine person.
1 Corinthians 8:4
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.
Galatians 3:20
A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is oneGod and onemediatorbetweenGod and men, the man Christ Jesus
John 1:1
[ The Word Became Flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the WordwaswithGod, and the WordwasGod.
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deitylives in bodilyform
Diety.....Greek word theotes(theh-ot'-ace)means divinity - godhead Theotes comes from the Greek word Theos which means the supreme Divinity
The problem isn't in the Bible, its your unbelief. You have to question the Trinity when Mormons belief states:
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting " D&C, 132:19,20.
Only God is from everlasting to everlasting.
True Christians believe that Jesus is truly God from eternity and is part of the Triune God (Godhead as Diety means) and that he became fully human to make atonement for our sins. That is why we trust and confess him as our Savior. A person who rejects the Trinity rejects this truth and will be damned to "outer darkness" or hell f o r e v e r.
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-15-2008 at 10:17 AM..
To say the trinity never being brought up is not true. There is no question that the Bible teaches the Trinity, although it doesn't use the term. There are passages that mention three distinct persons (e.g. Matthew 28:19), there are passages that identify each individual person as truly God (e.g. John 1:1), and there are passages that teach that, nevertheless, God is One (e.g. Deuteronomy 6:4). Put this all together, and the conclusion that God is triune becomes inescapable.
Non-Christians do not believe in three divine persons, for they deny the deity of Christ and the personality of the Holy Spirit. Your view is either a denial of the deity of two of the persons or polytheism. I do not know of any group today that holds this view of tritheism. If the unity is merely unity of purpose and not a unity of divine essence, then there are three gods or only one fully divine person.
1 Corinthians 8:4
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.
Galatians 3:20
A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is oneGod and onemediatorbetweenGod and men, the man Christ Jesus
John 1:1
[ The Word Became Flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the WordwaswithGod, and the WordwasGod.
The problem isn't in the Bible. Unless you are no longer Mormon, then its your unbelief. You have to question the Trinity when Mormons belief states
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting " D&C, 132:19,20.
Only God is from everlasting to everlasting.
Unbelief in the Trinity is damning because it is not correctly believing in the correct God. True Christians believe that Jesus is truly God from eternity and that he became fully human to make atonement for our sins. That is why we trust and confess him as our Savior. A person who rejects the Trinity rejects this truth and will be damned to "outer darkness" or hell f o r e v e r.
How can Jesus be the ONE God and the mediator between us and the One God.
Jesus said, Ye are Gods, to whom the word of God comes...not just Mormons.
The word of God is not just the bible, it is the word that is written on the hearts, minds and souls of a true believer and follower of Christ.
How can Jesus be the ONE God and the mediator between us and the One God.
Jesus said, Ye are Gods, to whom the word of God comes...not just Mormons.
The word of God is not just the bible, it is the word that is written on the hearts, minds and souls of a true believer and follower of Christ.
godspeed,
freedom
Because all three have different roles, but all are three are one God.
The fact is that Jesus is true God and true man. How this can be is impossible to understand. It is either accepted by faith through the third person of the trinity (the Holy Spirit) or rejected by unbelief.
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
Jesus said, Ye are Gods, to whom the word of God comes...not just Mormons.
Notice Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34 has the small letter spelling gods not Gods as you wrote.
The commentaries to this passage makes it specifically clear that the small "g" is used that represents a false god. For to be called "gods" a text that uses the word gods of those who are not God. They are false gods Jesus is saying. God is singular, false gods are plural.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (KJV)
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." (NIV)
Quote:
Originally Posted by freedom
The word of God is not just the bible, it is the word that is written on the hearts, minds and souls of a true believer and follower of Christ.
Freedom, The word of God is only the Bible. Our logic, hearts and minds and soul are easily corruptible.
Last edited by twin.spin; 07-15-2008 at 11:25 AM..
Because all three have different roles, but all are three are one God.
And if we become One with Christ and sit in His throne as He is sat in His Fathers throne, then we are part of the One God?
So potentially there is far more than a trinity.
Jesus has His own personage, as well as God and the Holy Spirit, as well as Us. I think that the full understanding of the man made trinity is missing the point that we all are Part of the Godhead, IF we become One with Christ.
To say the trinity never being brought up is not true. There is no question that the Bible teaches the Trinity, although it doesn't use the term. There are passages that mention three distinct persons (e.g. Matthew 28:19), there are passages that identify each individual person as truly God (e.g. John 1:1), and there are passages that teach that, nevertheless, God is One (e.g. Deuteronomy 6:4). Put this all together, and the conclusion that God is triune becomes inescapable.
Non-Christians do not believe in three divine persons, for they deny the deity of Christ and the personality of the Holy Spirit. Your view is either a denial of the deity of two of the persons or polytheism. I do not know of any group today that holds this view of tritheism. If the unity is merely unity of purpose and not a unity of divine essence, then there are three gods or only one fully divine person.
1 Corinthians 8:4
So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that an idol is nothing at all in the world and that there is no God but one.
Galatians 3:20
A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is oneGod and onemediatorbetweenGod and men, the man Christ Jesus
John 1:1
[ The Word Became Flesh ] In the beginning was the Word, and the WordwaswithGod, and the WordwasGod.
Colossians 2:9
For in Christ all the fullness of the Deitylives in bodilyform
Diety.....Greek word theotes(theh-ot'-ace)means divinity - godhead Theotes comes from the Greek word Theos which means the supreme Divinity
The problem isn't in the Bible, its your unbelief. You have to question the Trinity when Mormons belief states:
"Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting " D&C, 132:19,20.
Only God is from everlasting to everlasting.
True Christians believe that Jesus is truly God from eternity and is part of the Triune God (Godhead as Diety means) and that he became fully human to make atonement for our sins. That is why we trust and confess him as our Savior. A person who rejects the Trinity rejects this truth and will be damned to "outer darkness" or hell f o r e v e r.
I guess I may not be a "True" Christian in some peoples eyes, even though I may beg to differ. As I stated, I believe in God - My heavenly father, Jesus - his son and my savior, and the Holy Ghost. Jesus states many times that God is higher than him, above him. As I stated that it was even spoken by him ( as in John 14:28 as well as others ), so how can someone dismiss it but yet take other verses and hold them higher?
And a lot of those verses that you mentioned can be taken for or against the trinity such as 1 Timothy 2:5...
Yes there is one God, heavenly father. The one mediator between God ( heavenly father ) and man is Jesus.
A person that does not see Jesus being God, does not reject Jesus. I know he is my Savior and my only way to get back to God.
" I believe in one God Almighty, the Father. The one Jesus prayed too. The one whose right hand he is now sitting. Christ is worthy of our worship because God the Father gave him all things including his attributes. He gave Jesus the fullness of his Spirit. Essentially making him God, The best analogy I can make,and it might not be a good one is this... There is a father who owns a company..he started it,he built it from scratch and he has a son. His son grows up and the Father gives him the keys to the business. He teaches him about the business. So, the son learns everything from him. His father says son,the business is yours to run. His father essentially makes him part owner but not an equal owner. The Father still has the majority stock or ownership but the son is running the business because the father gave it to him to run. Every employee would call the son boss and be subject to him. They would have to answer to him. He would have the ability to hire and fire people because he was running the business for his father. To the employees and clients of the business, both the son and the father are boss. But the son is the one they would go to if there was a problem. Because you have to go through the chain of command and no one goes to the father but by the son. So one day,after the business is huge and successful and everything is perfect with that business...because the son has got the business running perfectly...the son then and only then hands the business back over to his father. So it ends,exactly the way it started with the Father sitting in control of his business."
I don't believe that whether or not a believer believes in the Trinity makes him or her a true Christian. What do we agree on? - That Jesus was sent by God, died for our sins and it is through Him that we have life. God has bestowed on Him the name that is above every other name. He is the only mediator between God and man and He is Lord and Savior. I believe that Jesus is the exact image of the Father and that the Father gave Him all things. God gave Him the right to be called God, but I believe that the Father is greater than He is. They are one in that they are united just as Jesus prayed for His disciples to be unified. It does not mean that we are to all be all the same person. But whether or not s a believer agrees with me on this subject does not mean that he or she is not my brother or sister in Christ. I would hope that the same attitude would be displayed towards me.
Quote:
I guess I may not be a "True" Christian in some peoples eyes, even though I may beg to differ. As I stated, I believe in God - My heavenly father, Jesus - his son and my savior, and the Holy Ghost. Jesus states many times that God is higher than him, above him. As I stated that it was even spoken by him ( as in John 14:28 as well as others ), so how can someone dismiss it but yet take other verses and hold them higher?
And a lot of those verses that you mentioned can be taken for or against the trinity such as 1 Timothy 2:5...
Yes there is one God, heavenly father. The one mediator between God ( heavenly father ) and man is Jesus.
A person that does not see Jesus being God, does not reject Jesus. I know he is my Savior and my only way to get back to God
Good points. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-15-2008 at 01:22 PM..
I guess I may not be a "True" Christian in some peoples eyes, even though I may beg to differ. As I stated, I believe in God - My heavenly father, Jesus - his son and my savior, and the Holy Ghost. Jesus states many times that God is higher than him, above him. As I stated that it was even spoken by him ( as in John 14:28 as well as others ), so how can someone dismiss it but yet take other verses and hold them higher?
And a lot of those verses that you mentioned can be taken for or against the trinity such as 1 Timothy 2:5...
Yes there is one God, heavenly father. The one mediator between God ( heavenly father ) and man is Jesus.
A person that does not see Jesus being God, does not reject Jesus. I know he is my Savior and my only way to get back to God.
I wish it were only in my eyes. But the fact is Jesus is God John 1:1, John 10:33.
He was accused of blasphemy, (John 10:33)
This accusation "blasphemy" was the "crime" he was crucified for.
His name will be called "Immanuel" which means God with us.Matthew 1:23
Christmas has "Immanuel" being born and the cross of Calvary, while Mormons don't celebrate Christmas and are repulsed by the cross, but "we believe in Jesus".
No, you are not Christian. What Mormons believe is a far cry from what the Word teaches us. To believe that you can become god makes you an enemy of Heavenly Father. You will be charged with "blasphemy" someday, like all the others before you. You can beg to differ all you want but to no avail. Outer darkness is your eternal fate.
"Be ye therefore perfect" Mike, not become.
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