Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Go on unto Perfection: Higher than the Heavens; let no-one be Spiritually Dead, let's be Spiritually God-ward: the concept of God of All is incomplete and must be set to to no Partiality, meaning there is no opposite of Mercy, Peace, and Grace: God is not a Hypocrite.
I am awed that you communicate directly with God . . . otherwise you are just using YOUR interpretation of what other men have written . . . and doing so apparently without knowledge or rigorous scholarship.
The hell YOU believe in does NOT exist, Vizio.God is no pansy and YOU are more likely to have to learn that than are we. Lack of agape love is incompatible with God. We WILL reap what we sow, Vizio . . . so your concerns in that regard are void. We will just NOT reap more than we sow in some mythical eternal torment of the hell in your imagination.
How is that love . . . if as YOU believe He did it to PAY Himself for His own anger and vengeance over our disobedience???
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
How is that love . . . if as YOU believe He did it to PAY Himself for His own anger and vengeance over our disobedience???
RESPONSE:
Correct! God himself took on human form and was our complete substitute payment for our debt of sin.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
You have it partially right, Twin. He did take on human form and was our substitute . . . but it was NOT in payment of some debt of sin. It was because our entire species was unable to achieve the pure agape love of God in a human consciousness. So He became human and achieved the pure agape love of God in His human consciousness so we would not have to. Now we only need to achieve some harmony with Christ's love for us all to connect with God. THAT is how He was our substitute and is the WAY to God . . . NOT in payment to appease a vengeful, jealous God's ego and Holiness with a blood sacrifice . . . as our ignorant savage ancestors believed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Don't forget the scourging and horrendous savagery endured as a scapegoat to PAY for our disobedience . . . which YOU believe God demanded. You think that is love?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
Don't forget the scourging and horrendous savagery endured as a scapegoat to PAY for our disobedience . . . which YOU believe God demanded. You think that is love?
RESPONSE:
Yes.
It was out of love for the Jews for God to have Moses lifted up a snake so that when bitten, all they did was simply believe on God's promise to look upon it and live.
So the same it is with Jesus.
I guess you do. It is magic, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You actually think that by OUR scourging and crucifying Jesus we PAID God for our disobedience and that is how we were reconciled to God??? This makes sense to you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by twin.spin
You actually think that by OUR scourging and crucifying Jesus we PAID God for our disobedience and that is how we were reconciled to God??? This makes sense to you?
RESPONSE:
This is where your dependence on human intellect fails you.
You are under the impression that we are responsible for OUR sanctification.
We did not pay anything to God by the scourging and crucifying anymore than the Jews being bitten by the snakes.
John 3:13-15
Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
so that everyone who believes in Him will have eternal life.
::Sigh:: I guess you do. Sad . . . but God forgives you, Twin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You can say with a straight face that eternally torturing anyone for ANY reason could EVER be justice???That makes sense to you? What Jesus DID was an act of love . . . but NOT to PAY God for His vengeance and anger over our disobedience. He knew what our ancestors would do to Him because of His Gospel but it was unavoidable given our savagery and barbarity. In our sinfulness and ignorance we could NOT accept His message about God's love for us all. Our ancestors believed in a War God of vengeance and jealousy. It was because of that ignorance and sinfulness that they scourged and crucified Him.
Yes. I would have to in order to follow a Christ-oriented belief system now wouldn't I? Philosophy and christianity, like science and christianity are only mutually exclusive in the minds of those that want to keep them so.
If a Judge were to let the guilty (you and me) go free without paying the penalty He would not be Just.
If He's not the Just God that the Bible talks about than He's not worthy of worship.
Since God IS Just, the payment must be made. The guilty can then be set free freely by His blood in His sacrifice for us in and through Jesus Christ.
This all brings glory to God, and He is worthy of worship.
He's left it up to us to accept what He's done for us accepting His provision through Christ - His demonstration of His perfect infinite love. The response to His love is a loving relationship with Him which is exactly what we've were created for.
How would God be surrounded by those whom He's given free will to love Him? Testing our faith is precious in His eyes as we are demonstrating our love toward Him through trials and testing.
As salvation is not the result of human effort, performance will be measured by giving good things to His children for their faithfulness.
God wants to have a dynamic relationship with His created entities. He's given us that free will to respond.
Only through the Cross accepting His free gift can one be Justified. Entirely apart from Human merit.
This purity of doctrine produces correct living with correct motives out of LOVE for your Savior God.
The pharisees did the "works", but God is looking at the heart.
Yes, but I believe that Jesus was speaking of the Christ and not himself, other Christ awakened masters said the same thing in different ages.
The I AM is bigger than Jesus in the same way that all the water on this earth is more than any individual lake. By analogy, Jesus, Buddha and Krishna are lakes filled with the one living I AM.
In another scripture, Jesus clearly says the only requirement for attaining eternal life is loving God and loving our neighbor: “On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. ‘Teacher,’ he asked, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ ‘What is written in the Law?’ he replied. ‘How do you read it?’ He answered: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ‘You have answered correctly,’ Jesus replied. ‘Do this and you will live.’†(Luke 10:25-28).
If believing in Jesus were necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus would have been guilty of lying to the temple official in this scripture. Not a single time did Jesus ever warn us about other religions. Rather, he said, “And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.†(Luke 9:49-50). Any sincere believer that is not against Jesus is for Jesus.
Krishna comments on his own incarnation:
When goodness grows weak, when evil increases, I make myself a body. In every age I come back to deliver the holy, to destroy the sin of the sinner; to establish righteousness. Bhagavad Gita
And Buddha said:
You are my children, I am your father; through me you have been released from your sufferings. I myself having reached the other shore, help others to cross the stream; I myself having attained salvation, am a savior of others; being comforted, I comfort others and lead them to the place of refuge. My thoughts are always in the truth. For lo! my self has become the truth. Whosoever comprehends the truth will see the Blessed One.
Yes, but I believe that Jesus was speaking of the Christ and not himself, other Christ awakened masters said the same thing in different ages.
The I AM is bigger than Jesus in the same way that all the water on this earth is more than any individual lake. By analogy, Jesus, Buddha and Krishna are lakes filled with the one living I AM.
In another scripture, Jesus clearly says the only requirement for attaining eternal life is loving God and loving our neighbor: “On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. ‘Teacher,’ he asked, ‘what must I do to inherit eternal life?’ ‘What is written in the Law?’ he replied. ‘How do you read it?’ He answered: ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ‘You have answered correctly,’ Jesus replied. ‘Do this and you will live.’†(Luke 10:25-28).
If believing in Jesus were necessary to attain eternal life, Jesus would have been guilty of lying to the temple official in this scripture. Not a single time did Jesus ever warn us about other religions. Rather, he said, “And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.†(Luke 9:49-50). Any sincere believer that is not against Jesus is for Jesus.
Krishna comments on his own incarnation:
When goodness grows weak, when evil increases, I make myself a body. In every age I come back to deliver the holy, to destroy the sin of the sinner; to establish righteousness. Bhagavad Gita
And Buddha said:
You are my children, I am your father; through me you have been released from your sufferings. I myself having reached the other shore, help others to cross the stream; I myself having attained salvation, am a savior of others; being comforted, I comfort others and lead them to the place of refuge. My thoughts are always in the truth. For lo! my self has become the truth. Whosoever comprehends the truth will see the Blessed One.
Jesus is explicitly stated in the Bible to be both the Christ or Messiah and to be 'I am.'
Jesus explicitly stated that one must believe in Him to have eternal life. In order to merit eternal life by loving God and neighbor one would have to keep that commandment perfectly. And since no one is perfect, no one can keep that command perfectly. Therefore, the ONLY means of attaining eternal life is by accepting the fact that Jesus died for our sins - believing in Christ. That 'expert on the law' was testing Jesus and asked him what he must DO by way of meritorious works to earn salvation. Jesus answered accordingly.
And bringing up Krishna and Buddha is simply trying to infiltrate New Age concepts into Christianity.
The Jesus of the Gospel of John (which happens to be my favorite gospel) is so different from the Jesus of the other gospels that I am hesitant to place definitive importance on huge, divisive doctrines that flow almost exclusively from the Jesus of John.
Even if Jesus is "the only Way" and "no man comes unto the Father but through Him" - which I accept because I'm an orthodox (mainstream) Christian - I believe there is considerable room for interpretation as to what this MEANS. I try to live as though the divisive orthodox dogma were true, but I also accept that only God knows exactly what this means. I am non-dogmatic about the dogma!
A layman named Evan Powell shook up the scholarly community with what he called the Ur-John hypothesis. "Ur" was the original John, which was the EARLIEST gospel by an eyewitness disciple. The remainder was added decades later by a highly sophisticated author who was addressing Gnosticism and other late-first-century controversies. Powell identified the two gospels on a line-by-line basis, and his work was very compelling to me. This would explain why Ur doesn't seem to rely on the Synoptic gospels and the Jesus of the later John sounds so different. Alas, Powell's website no longer has all the materials it once did.
Jesus is explicitly stated in the Bible to be both the Christ or Messiah and to be 'I am.'
Jesus explicitly stated that one must believe in Him to have eternal life. In order to merit eternal life by loving God and neighbor one would have to keep that commandment perfectly. And since no one is perfect, no one can keep that command perfectly. Therefore, the ONLY means of attaining eternal life is by accepting the fact that Jesus died for our sins - believing in Christ. That 'expert on the law' was testing Jesus and asked him what he must DO by way of meritorious works to earn salvation. Jesus answered accordingly.
And bringing up Krishna and Buddha is simply trying to infiltrate New Age concepts into Christianity.
That post is 15 years old Mike. It looks like you weighed in way back then. Perfect opportunity to see if you've progressed. Mystic kinda looks like...
That post is 15 years old Mike. It looks like you weighed in way back then. Perfect opportunity to see if you've progressed. Mystic kinda looks like...
Yes, it's an old thread but I thought I'd reply again anyway. I still believe the fundamentals regarding the Trinity, the deity of Jesus, his virgin birth, crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and session at the right hand of the Father, and that eternal salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
What's changed is that I no longer hold to the ruin/restoration model (also known as the GAP theory) of creation and I now believe that much of what is presented as history in the Old Testament is not historically accurate. I don't believe that there necessarily was a historical Adam and Eve nor that there had to be a historical Adam for there to have been a sin problem which required Jesus to come into the world. Other things as well. Oh, and I'm big on evolution, that God used evolution to bring things about. And I no longer believe in biblical inerrancy.
Last edited by Michael Way; 09-12-2023 at 02:00 PM..
This thread is awesome. Tricky D. (run DMC) Firstborn888..nice..nice...nice...and travelingFella
all people I would have no problem being in complete agreement with.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
