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Maybe it's just a translation thing.
But aren't we also taught; judge not.....
Doesn't forgiveness presuppose judgement?
I've never deemed myself qualified to "forgive".
I prefer "canceling the debt"
he is pushing forgiveness. he is trying to avoid what is going on in the mideast now, but was the same 2000 years ago. the eye for an eye does not work. the bloodbath will go on forever without forgiveness. having said that jesus did not preach being a door mat. christians are not door mats.
Maybe it's just a translation thing.
But aren't we also taught; judge not.....
Doesn't forgiveness presuppose judgement?
I've never deemed myself qualified to "forgive".
I prefer "canceling the debt"
Cancel the debt of those that trespass against you? Okay....
But scripture says. Forgive and you shall be forgiven... forgive not and your Father shall not forgive you...
We are not saved by our belief, but by our faith. Many people contend that faith is untied to works. My 2 cents: That is not the case.
Careful study reveals that faith is belief + trust + action ... under a condition of risk.
Hebrews tells us faith is the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen. Meditate on that passage along with James ... "Faith without works is dead".
Wind is a great analogy for faith. It is unseen but moves and acts upon objects ... it has force and effect.
If there is no action, there is no "evidence of that which is unseen" and thus there is no faith. Where there is no faith, there is no salvation.
Forgiveness is an act of faith born out of belief and devotion to the example Christ set for us and it carries a risk ... both in trusting in something outside of ourselves and allowing oursleves to potentially have our forgiving nature taken advantage of by others.
Buuutttt .... also consider the textual, cultural, and historical context of the passages you presented.
Can we be saved yet still be subject to unforgiveness in eternity? Does unforgiveness equal punishment, damnation, or spiritual death? What are we rewarded for in heaven ... All the sin we don't commit or all the good we store up by the acts we make in truth faith?
Tha canon has much to say on this topic and it is a much deeper study than, "Am I not forgiven if I don't fogive?"
It becomes more like: "Am I not fogiven if I do not forgive and what does that mean? Does that mean I lose rewards in eternity, or am I punished, or am I unsaved?"
I've never understood the "recite a prayer, be saved mentality". Words and action must be congruent ... one ... with ... inseparable ... uncontradictory and complimentary ... being real and tangible. Even the thief on the cross took an "action of faith".
- Love, peace, and chicken grease.
Last edited by Fighting For Air; 10-29-2008 at 06:55 PM..
Is Jesus speaking figuratively or will those that do not forgive, really not be forgiven?
Can we take His word and believe it?
godspeed,
freedom
I think Jesus was telling us how it really is, and not figuratively. I'm reminded of part of the Lord's Prayer: "....and forgive us our tresspasses, as we forgive those who tresspass against us..."
If we want to be forgiven, then we have to forgive others...
Hmmm...that reminds me: from time to time a few posters on the forum have irritated and/or angered me. Ya'll are forgiven!
Generally our forgiving those who trespass against us benefits us more than it does the trespasser. If the one who has trespassed does not recieve forgiveness from God, he/she is still lost. For us to hold on to the hard feelings we have towards another is harmful to ourselves. It can eat like a cancer.
So...it appears to me Jesus is thinking of us when he tells us to forgive others their trespasses. It is up to the trespasser to ask God for forgiveness, and to ask forgiveness from the one he/she has trespassed against. We can not do that for them.
Forgiving is not hard...it's Forgetting that's the tough one.
Never forget your forgiven, or that you have forgiven...
godspeed,
freedom
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