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Hello,
I don't know what source you are quoting from, but there is only one Sheol/Hades. It simply means 'the grave' or 'the unseen'.
From cover to cover the bible says there is no consciousness, work, activity, knowledge or thought there.
The single contradiction to this is Jesus in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.
The main problem with an understanding that Jesus is simply referring to what happens to 'lost' and 'saved' people in the afterlife in this parable is that NO MENTION is made about faith in God at all - only that the one man was rich and had a good life and the other was poor and had a terrible life.
The idea that upon death a person immediately goes into conscious non-ending torments/blessings originated in 'pagan' mythology.
The idea of 'two compartments in Sheol' and 'instant reward/punishment' theory did not originally come from the Hebrews or their scriptures at all, but the Pharisees had such a doctrine - probably picked up while the Jews were in captivity to pagan nations. In the Pharisees version - the rich, who were (in their eyes) obviously blessed by God would be carried by angels (also un-scriptural) to their reward in the 'bosom of Abraham' (also a one time mention) while the poor beggars who were (in their eyes) obviously cursed by God were sent into instant fiery torments.
Jesus simply turned their OWN false doctrine upside down on them to show their hypocrisy.
Everyone can claim to be more authenticated with his own interpretation.
To me, the most important things are,
1. The Bible verses themselves literally
2. To be aligned with the Church
3. To be guided by the Holy Spirit
4. The consistency throughout the whole Bible
Your explanation seems to be violating at least the 2 and 4. If your view is different from the doctrine used and taught by the Church, I don't know what source your explanation is coming from.
If this was true, everyone would be perfect.. or are you saying that God only "stops the child" after death, and lets him go on his merry way in this life? And that, in this case, nothing we do in this life really matters? What are you meaning by "to his own detriment" if there is nothing that will harm us anyway (no one going to hell)?
Either way, it does not make logical sense. Why did He not stop Hitler?
I most certainly believe and know what CelticLady is saying to be true, but there is something being left out, reincarnation...we live many many lives before we make it into heaven...but their are also many levels of heaven. That is why we are here, to learn. If you look around at nature and the way all the systems are set up in the world, take the educational system for example...you start out in pre k and as you get older, you learn more, you pay for not studying, not paying attention, not behaving, but you learn the appropriate ways. If you fail that grade, you dont get thrown in the furnace, you repeat the grade. Now say one student graduates, well they would be more accountable and have more responsibility than say the pre school toddler would. They would also be more knowledgeable and be able to faster head to a good college and be rewarded for their hardwork alot sooner than the child who didnt learn as fast or try as hard. Now say their are two toddlers in pre school who come from bad homes and are very bad behaved, who make it to the sixth grade and one dies and the other graduates, but the other has been given a longer life to learn about good and God, that the first child didnt get the chance to have. Now one life would not be enough to learn everything, that is why there are many lives. Eventually everyone will be saved, but the hell comes in when having to repeat the lives until the soul is pure and advanced enough to be in the highest level of heaven or back in the christ consciousness. (Which repeating the lives until you learn the christ consciousness in itself is hell, it comes with all the sorrow and pain of life)The system is set up in the way God would teach all of us. It is the way our parents are to raise us, it is the way our schools teach us, it is the way our jobs are suppose to reward us for our hard work. It is all around, all you have to do is pay attention.
Last edited by SilverAndWhiteLining778; 08-20-2008 at 10:28 PM..
Talk to those who actually have had NDE's, or look NDEs up online to see what they have to say. Besides if you believe there is an afterlife, it wouldnt be too crazy to ask or read about those who have been dead and came back and know firsthand from experience.
Everyone can claim to be more authenticated with his own interpretation.
To me, the most important things are,
1. The Bible verses themselves literally
2. To be aligned with the Church
3. To be guided by the Holy Spirit
4. The consistency throughout the whole Bible
Your explanation seems to be violating at least the 2 and 4. If your view is different from the doctrine used and taught by the Church, I don't know what source your explanation is coming from.
#4 is the consistency I addressed concerning Sheol/Hades which Jesus Himself seems to violate if you don't consider who target of the parable was.
#2, I don't understand exactly, do you mean the RCC?
I most certainly believe and know what CelticLady is saying to be true, but there is something being left out, reincarnation...we live many many lives before we make it into heaven...but their are also many levels of heaven. That is why we are here, to learn. If you look around at nature and the way all the systems are set up in the world, take the educational system for example...you start out in pre k and as you get older, you learn more, you pay for not studying, not paying attention, not behaving, but you learn the appropriate ways. If you fail that grade, you dont get thrown in the furnace, you repeat the grade. Now say one student graduates, well they would be more accountable and have more responsibility than say the pre school toddler would. They would also be more knowledgeable and be able to faster head to a good college and be rewarded for their hardwork alot sooner than the child who didnt learn as fast or try as hard. Now say their are two toddlers in pre school who come from bad homes and are very bad behaved, who make it to the sixth grade and one dies and the other graduates, but the other has been given a longer life to learn about good and God, that the first child didnt get the chance to have. Now one life would not be enough to learn everything, that is why there are many lives. Eventually everyone will be saved, but the hell comes in when having to repeat the lives until the soul is pure and advanced enough to be in the highest level of heaven or back in the christ consciousness. (Which repeating the lives until you learn the christ consciousness in itself is hell, it comes with all the sorrow and pain of life)The system is set up in the way God would teach all of us. It is the way our parents are to raise us, it is the way our schools teach us, it is the way our jobs are suppose to reward us for our hard work. It is all around, all you have to do is pay attention.
May I ask what Scripture you have to support the idea that there are different levels of heaven. This concept sounds more like the Hindus belief in Brahman and the caste system.l
May I ask what Scripture you have to support the idea that there are different levels of heaven. This concept sounds more like the Hindus belief in Brahman and the caste system.l
There is a brief thought expressed by Paul to this subject. Understand that this is not a part of work-righteousness on our part, but soley something that God gives no explaintion as to how or why He does what he does or will do at the ressurection. This come from several passages Phillipians 2:14-16 and more specifically 1 Corinthians 15:40-42. God through Paul speaks of different degrees of glory, The sun has one type verses the moon, some stars shine brighter than other stars. Not that anyone is greater or lesser than another in heaven, only that God speaks of differences of glory, differences that are not explained.
Phillipians 2:14-16
Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe as you hold out the word of life—in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
1 Corinthians 15:40-42
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. So will it be with the resurrection of the dead.
Last edited by twin.spin; 08-23-2008 at 09:37 AM..
If you are interested.... There is an excellent paper on the net which shows how the lost will be destroyed (perish) and that is what Jesus meant when He spoke about hell. Which He did not speak english anyway - so He never mentioned that word. He mentioned "gehennah" (which modern translations make it into "hell") but the word Christ used was the name of a garbage dump outside of Jerusalem. Anyway - check out jewishnotgreek.com Why Conditional Immortality is true and biblical for excellent information.
I most certainly believe and know what CelticLady is saying to be true, but there is something being left out, reincarnation...we live many many lives before we make it into heaven...but their are also many levels of heaven. That is why we are here, to learn. If you look around at nature and the way all the systems are set up in the world, take the educational system for example...you start out in pre k and as you get older, you learn more, you pay for not studying, not paying attention, not behaving, but you learn the appropriate ways. If you fail that grade, you dont get thrown in the furnace, you repeat the grade. Now say one student graduates, well they would be more accountable and have more responsibility than say the pre school toddler would. They would also be more knowledgeable and be able to faster head to a good college and be rewarded for their hardwork alot sooner than the child who didnt learn as fast or try as hard. Now say their are two toddlers in pre school who come from bad homes and are very bad behaved, who make it to the sixth grade and one dies and the other graduates, but the other has been given a longer life to learn about good and God, that the first child didnt get the chance to have. Now one life would not be enough to learn everything, that is why there are many lives. Eventually everyone will be saved, but the hell comes in when having to repeat the lives until the soul is pure and advanced enough to be in the highest level of heaven or back in the christ consciousness. (Which repeating the lives until you learn the christ consciousness in itself is hell, it comes with all the sorrow and pain of life)The system is set up in the way God would teach all of us. It is the way our parents are to raise us, it is the way our schools teach us, it is the way our jobs are suppose to reward us for our hard work. It is all around, all you have to do is pay attention.
There actually is evidence in the bible to support reincarnation and it was a standard belief in the first century until the belief was banned by the Church of Rome.
James 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.
This actually should be translated as the wheel of our life.
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